Hearings regarding Communist espionage in the United States Government. Hearings

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f / HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE IN THE
^ UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT-PART TWO

HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

EIGHTIETH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

Public Law 601

(Section 121, Subsection Q (2) )

DECEMBER 7, 8, 9, 10, AND 14, 1948

Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities

UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
80408 WASHINGTON : 1948

V\

I

U. S. SUPLKlMtENOENT Of DOCUMt*lti

JAN IX 1949

COMMITTED ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES

J. PAUNELL THOMAS, New Jersey, Chairman

KAUL E. MUNDT, South Dakota JOHN S. \VO(»I>, Gcoifria

.lOIIX MiDOWELL. rcnnsylvania JOHN E. RANKIN, Mississippi

KICIIAKl) M. NIXON, California J. HARDIN PETERSON, Florida

RICHARD B. VAIL, Illinois F. EDWARD IIEHERT, Louisiana

RuiiKKT E. STKIPLING, Chief lnve»ti(intor
BENJAMIN MANDEL, Diri'rtor of KcHcuich

SX'BCOMMITTKK
KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota, Chairman
JOHN MCDOWELL, Pennsylvania JOHN E. RANKIN, Mississippi

RICHARD M. NIXON, California F. EDWARD HUBERT, Louisiana

RICHARD B. VAIL, Illinois

Note. — Page numbering follows preceding hearings to allow continuity in
complete sets of hearings for this session of Congress.

II

CONTENTS

December 7, 1948 :

Testimony of — Page.

Robert E. Stripling 1380

William Wheeler 1381

Keith B. Lewis 1385

Smiiner Welles 1386

John Peurifoy 1391

December 8, 1948 :
Testimony of —

Isaac Don Levine 1399

December 9, 1948 :
Testimony of —

Henry J. Wadleigh 1429

Courtney PI Owens 1449

December 10, 1948 :
Testimony of —

Nathan L. Levine __ 1451

December 14, 1948 :
Testimony of —

Marion Bachrach 1467

Index _ 1475

III

HEAEINGS KEUARDINO COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE IN THE
UNITED STATES GOVEENMENT— PAKT TWO

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 7, 1948

United States House of Representatives,

Special Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,

Washington^ D. G.

The subcoinmittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 p. m., in tlie Caucus
Room, Old House Office Building, Hon. Karl E. Mundt (acting
chairman) presiding.

Committee members present: Representatives Karl E. Mundt (act-
ing chairman), John McDowell, Richard M. Nixon, Richard B. Vail,
John E'. Rankin, and F. Edward Hebert.

Staff members present: Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator;
William A. Wheeler, investigator; and A. S. Poore. editor.

Mr. Mundt. The committee will please come to order.

We have present this afternoon Mr. McDowell, Mr. Nixon, Mr.
Vail, Mr. Rankin, Mr. Hebert, and Mr. Mundt, as acting chairman.

These hearings are a resiunption of the hearings which started on
August 3, continued until September 9, and follow the publication
of an interim report, Avhat came to be called generally in the news-
papers as the Hiss-Chambers situation.

The calling of the hearing at this particular time was necessitated
by the rather startling development and disclosures of December 2,
and the finding of some missing files and documents from the State
Department which were located in an entirely unofficial and unwar-
ranted location. [Laughter.]

The purpose of the hearing is to determine who took those secret
documents from the State Department and delivered them to Mr.
Chambers.

Secondly, we want to determine how many of these documents, if
any, or if all, reached Russian agents themselves.

Third, we want to determine whether or not this espionage ring
which ferreted these important documents from the State Depart-
ment into the hands of the man who at the time is a self-confessed
member of the Communist espionage ring, we wish to determine
whether that espionage ring is still operating in Government in
Washington.

And, in the fourth place, we desire to determine the importance to
the enemy and the unwarranted sources of the material which was
taken from the State Department without authority and justification.

We had expected to have JNIr. Whittaker Chambers here as our
first witness this afternoon, but due to the fact that the grand jury
has been reconvened in New York City for the purpose of considering
the evidence discovered by oUr committee investigators, and since

1379

1380 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

they have subpenaed Mr. "Wliittaker Chambers, together Avith an in-
vest igator from our conniiittee, and copies of some of the documents
obtained by our investigators, we shall not have Mr. Wliittaker Cham-
bers testify this afternoon.

Instead we shall direct our attention jirimarily to the fourtli point
which I mentionetl, determining the imijorlance to our national
securitv of these documents which were located on the INIarvland
farui.

For that purpose the (^hair is going to call as the iirst witness,
the chief investigator of the connnittee, Mr. Kobert E. Strii)ling,
and ask him to take the stand, and be sworn at this time.

Mr. Hkukkt. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Hebert.

Mr. IIebkkt. I make a motion we go into executive session.

Mr. MuNDT. Does anyone second the motion?

Mr. Rankin. I second the motion.

Mr. MuNDT. Those in favor of going into executive session say
"aye.''

(Chorus of '"ayes.")

Mr. MuNDT. Those opposed ?

The ''aves'- have it. We will m) into executive session at this time.

(At this point, the connnittee retired into executive session — the
])roceedings in executive session not being reported — resuming in
open session at 3 p. m. as follows :)

Mr. Mi'NOT. The commit d'e will come to order.

Perhaps the Chair shouUl explain to the guest, the })ress antl the
committee, why we went into an executive session and out again so
rapidly. It was simply because we have assembled here tothiy from
the various home districts in which we live without any o]iportunity
to consult with each other. Mr. Ilcbert felt, and I think his idea
was sound, that we should try to get together and discuss among
ourselves the policy and the program of the committee before open-
iiiir the heai'injxs. Tliat wo have done, and we are now in unanimous
agreement that we shall proceed in accordance with the outline made
by the chairman at the opening of the meeting.

The Chair will call Mr. Stripling as the first witness.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you ai'e about to give will
be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?

Mr. Stripling. I do.

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT E. STRIPLING

Mr. MuNDT. You may proceed, Mr. Stripling.

Mr. Rankin. I want to say. Mi-. Chaii-man. that that vote a little
while ago was the Iirst thing the Democrats have won since November
the 2d.

Mr. MuNDT. That is because the Republicans didn't vote, just like
in Noveml)er.

Mr. Stiui'MNc. Mr. Chairman, pursuant to the committee's instruc-
tions to continue and to conclude, if jwssible, the investigation of the
alleged Communist apparatus which operated within the Government
from ir>34 to 103H. the staff of the connuitte(\ since the conclusion of

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1381

the last public hearing on September 9, has been continuing its inves-
tigation of the entire matter of the Hiss-Chambers controversy.

On December 2 of this year, I served a subpena upon Whittaker
Chambers, calling upon him to produce all documents in his posses-
sion relating to Alger Hiss, John Abt, Lee Pressman, Harold Ware,
Alexander Stephens, Victor Perlo, Elizabeth T. Bentley, Harry Dexter
White, George Silverman, IrVing Kaplan, Nathan Witt, Henry Col-
lins, Pricilla Hiss, Donald Hiss, and all other material in documen-
tary form which has to do with the investigation of espionage in the
Federal Government.

Pursuant to this subpena, Mr. Chambers produced certain micro-
films, M'hich we now have in the committee's possession. I should
like first to have these microfilms identified, and I ask that Mr. Wil-
liam Wlieeler, investigator, take the stand.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Wheeler, do you solemnly swear the testimony
you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God^

Mr. Wheeler. I do.

Mr. MuNDT. Take the stand.

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM WHEELER

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Wheeler, would you state your full name and
present address?

Mr. Wheeler. William A. Wlieeler, Washington, D. C.

Mr. Stripling. You are an investigator for the Committee on Un-
American Activities ?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. How long have you been an investigator?

Mr. Wheeler. Approximately 18 months.

Mr. Stripling. Where were you employed prior to your service
with the Committee on Un-American Activities ?

Mr. AViieeler. With the United States Secret Service, Treasury
Department.

Mr. Stripling. And how long were you employed by the Secret
Service ?

Mr. Wheeler. Well, from 1943 until July 31, 1947, However, I was
in the Army for a period of 22 months.

Mr. Stripling. While you were in the Army, were you assigned to
any investigative unit?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir; I was in the criminal investigation divi-
sion as an agent.

Mr. Stripling. Under the Provost Marshal's office ?

Mr. Wheeler. That is correct.

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Wheeler, on December 2, 1948, did I call you
to my office, 225 Old House Office Building?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. Were you present when Mr. Donald T. Appell, an
investigator for the committee, was also present ?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. And at that time did I instruct you and Mr. Appell
to accompany Mr. Wliittaker Chambers to his home at Westminster,
Md., to receive certain documents and information which were called
for in the subpena which had been served upon him?

1382 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. WiiEELEK. That is correct.

Mr. Stiui'linc;. Did you accompany Mr. Chambers to Westminster?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir.

Mr. Sthii'mx(j. Did Mr. Donald T. Ai)pell accompany you^

Mr. ^^'I^:KLKK. Yes, sir.

Mr. Strii'Lix<j. Wliat time did you arrive at A\\'stuiiMster, or al
tlie farm of Mr. Chambers?

Mr. WiiEELEH. A|)pr()ximately 10:45 p. m.

Mr. Stripling. Did he at that time pi-o(hice any records or material
in response to the subpena ?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir.

Mr. Striplixg. Would you describe to the committee what he pro-
duced ?

Mr. Wheeler. He produced three aluminum containers that later
proved to have film in them; he produced two rolls of developed Jio-
millimeter film.

Mr. 8trh'L1N(;. Where was this material taken from?

Mr. Wheeler. It was taken from a punii)kin.

Mr. Stripling. Would you describe to the committee the circum-
stances undei- which Mr. Chambers produced this niici-ojilm i

IVIr. Wheeler. We went into ^Ir. Chambers' house, and he was
lo()kin<r for a flashli<rht; he could not find one, and he turned on the
yard li<j:hts. We then w^ent out into this field, and he picked up several
]^uni])kins and i)ut them back down; then ho picked one up and said,
"Here is what you are looking- for.'' He pulled the top off' of it, and
handed it to me; I reached in and pulled out the material.

Mr. Stripling. Was the material which he handed to you, or which
you i-eached in and pulled out, the containers which I now hand you,
and which have been identified?

I now hand you a container which shall be known as exhibit 1, ask
you to examine it and tell the conunittee whether or not it is the con-
tainer which you obtained from Mr. Chambei-s.

IMr. "Wheeler. This is the container. It has my initial on it, the
date 12-2—48; the top has a cross mark which I placed on it.

Mr, S'raiPLiNG. You placed that upon it ?

Mr. Wheeler. It had tape on it when we orio-inally jiot it.

Mr. Stripling. Was this particular film undeveloped at the \\^^^v
you obtained it?

Mr. Wheeler. Well, IVIr. Api^ell

Mr. Stripling. Yes, but I mean tlie film had not been developed?

Mr. Wheeler. That is correct.

IVIr. Stripling. I shoAv you another container, and ask you if you
can identify it. It shall be known as exhibit 2.

Mr. WiiEELKR. Yes. sir; it has my initial on it ; also the date 12-2-48.
The to}) has an ''X'" which I placed on it.

Mr. Stripling. I show you another container which shall be marked
as exhibit .'^), and ask you to identify it.

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir; it has my initial on it; the date 12-2-48.
The to]) is nuirked. It is the same container.

Mr. Stripling. In addition, was there also other film which was
not in containers?

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1383

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir. Also in the material was a small package
wrapped in waxed paper with a rubber band around it.

Mr. Stripling. Is this the material which you obtained in the
waxed paper?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir; it has my initial and the date 12-2-48. I
identify it as the material.

Mr. Stripling. Now, after this material w^as obtained from Mr.
Chambers, did you and Mr. Appell then proceed to Washington ?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir. We proceeded to Westminster, where we
stopped and identified all the material with the identifying marks.

Mr. Stripling. Where did you identify the material?

Mr. Wheeler. It was the American Cafe in Westminster.

Mr. Stripling. You stopped there at approximately what time ?

Mr. Wheeler. I would say about 5 minutes after 11.

Mr. Stripling. Then you and Mr. Appell proceeded to Washing-
ton ?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir.

Mr. Mundt. p. m., or a. m., the 5 after 11?

Mr. Wheeler. P. m., sir.

Mr. Stripling. When you arrived in Washington, who kept pos-
session of the film?

Mr. Wheeler. Mr. A])pell.

Mr. Stripling. Now, Mr. Chairman, on the morning of December
3, Mr. Appell and Mr. Wheeler reported to the office at about 9 : 15.
We opened the film which had been developed, and it was apparent
from an examination of it that it contained pictures of documents
which appeared to be from a department of the Government. I then
detailed Mr. Wheeler to take this particular film which had been de-
veloped to a photographic technician, which he did, and the following
documents or prints were made from the microfilm or film which was
obtained from Mv. Chambers.

I would like for Mr. Wheeler to identify these documents as prints
which were made in his presence. I am going to ask that he examine
each document himself without any further identification at this time.
He was present when each document was printed from the microfilm.

Mr. Wheeler. Each document has my initials on the back and the
date, Mr. Chairman.

j\Ir. Mundt. Very well. You will examine these series and find out
if they are all ones you have seen.

Mr. Stripling. Mr. AVheeler, is it correct that each one of those
documents are numbered in consecutive order ? When the picture was
made, a number was placed in the corner?

Mr. Wheeler. No ; this number was on the microfilm.

Mr. Stripling. It was on the microfilm ?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. While Mr. Wheeler is examining these documents,
Mr. Chairman, I would state what was done with these undeveloped
film.

Mr. Appell. who, if he were here, would take the witness stand, but
who is before the gi'and jury in New York, was instructed to take the
undeveloped film to the Veterans' Administration laboratory where it
was developed. Some of it, apparently due to age, didn't print very
clearly. These particular prints are still in the process of develop-

1384 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

ment, I might say, and we expect to have various technicians in the
(lovernnient work fnrtlier n])on them in an etfoi't to hrinjx tliem out.

Mr. IIkhkht. Mr. Striplin<^, may 1 ask you a (juestion there ^

Mr. STinrLiNG, Yes, sir.

Mr. Hkhert. ITow did ^fr. AVheeler know it was not a developed
fihu^

Mr. vS'nuri.ixu. You describe that, Mr. Wiieeler.

Mr. Wheelkr. This particular film here that was in the alumimim
cylinders, ]\fr. Chainl)ers told us it was uTuleveloj)ed, and to take
care of it. We diihTt open it and the following day. Decembei- -i,
Ml". Ai)pell took tiu'se cylinders over to the Veterans' Administration
where they were develo})ed.

Mr. Hemekt. Well, the umleveloj>ed film was in the aluminum cyl-
inder, and the otheis were in what '.

Mr. WiiEEEEK. Tliey were wrapped in waxed paper.

Mr. Heuert. The others were wrapped in waxed paper?

Mr. Wheeler. The developed.

Ml-. IIei'.ert. And the ones that were undeveloped were in an alu-
minum cylinder?

Mr. Wheeler. That is right.

Mr. Hebert. Which you knew ahead of time were not developed?

Mr. Wheeler. That is right.

Mr. Stripling. And at the Veterans' Administration they reported
back some of it was not discernible because of age ?

Mr. Wheeler. That is correct.

Mr. Hehert. There would be no doubt it is old film, that is what I
want to establish.

Mr. Wheeler. It has been established, I believe.

Mr. Hebert. Can you tell me this: Can it be established by the
marking on the film what year those films were printed^

Mr. Strh'lixg. Yes, sir. I will ask, Mr. Chairman, to call another
witness at this point.

Mr. Hebert. To establish that ?

Mr. Striplixg. To establish that on a particular lilin. We have
not been able to ascertain it all, but the principal film which we are
concerned with here can be identified.

Mr. Rankin. Let him finish identifying those copies there, first.

Mr. Wheeler. I can identify all those documents as coming from
the developed film, this group here.

Now, Mr. Stripling, do you wish me to go into the other group?

Mr. Striplixg. After ^Ir. A]>pell had the film develo])ed at the
Veterans' Administration, Mr. Chairman, I instructed him to pro-
ceed to the laboratory where Mr. Wheeler and the laboratory techni-
cian were working on the printing of the films which had already
been developed. Mr. Appell took the film there and Mr. Wheeler
was present while an effort was made to bring these ])rints out.

As you can see, some of them are fairly legible; othei-s are almost
blank.

But you were present, were you not, Mr. '^^^leeler, when this group
of films was printed?

]\rr. Wheeler. Yes, sir; I assisted in the printing of those films.

Mr. Stripling. Are there any further questions of Mr. Wheeler?

Mr. ^IrxuT. ^fr. Wheeler, have you completed ideut ifying all of the
documents now?

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1385

Mr. Wheeler. I haven't identified this stack as yet, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. Perhaps you had better continue until you identify
them all, because they will continue to play an important part in all
these hearings.

Mr. McDowell. Many of them are perfectly legible, however?

Mr. ^^TRiPLiNG. Oh, yes.

Mr. Wheeler, you have your initials on the back of each one of these
prints, is that correct ?

Mr. Wheeler. That is correct, my initials and the date, 12-3^8.

Mr. Stripling. You submitted an exact copy of these documents
to the grand jury yesterday ; is that correct ?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. In New York City ?

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir.

Mr. Chairman, I identify this group of documents as the group
of documents I assisted in the printing of. The films from which
the documents were printed were given to me by Mr. Appell.

Mr. Stripling. That is all, Mr. Chairman, unless there are further
questions.

]\Ir. MuNDT. Any questions of Mr. Wlieeler from the committee ?

(No response.)

Mr. MuNDT. Thank you, Mr. Wheeler.

Mr. Stripling, will you call the next witness ?

Mr. Stripling. Yes ; I would like to call Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Mundt. Mr. Lewis, do you solemnly swear the testimony you
are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?

Mr. Lewis. I do.

Mr. Mundt. Just be seated, please.

TESTIMONY OF KEITH B. LEWIS

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Lewis, would you please state your full name?

Mr. Lewis. Keith B. Lewis.

Mr. Stripling. What is your present address ?

Mr. Lewis. 2009 Peabody Street, Hyattsville, Md.

Mr. Stripling. And what is your occupation ?

Mr. Lewis. I am manager of the Washington office for Eastman
Kodak Co.

Mr. Stripling. How long have you been manager ?

Mr. Lewis. Since July of 1944.

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Lewis, did you receive a telephone request yes-
terday to come to the office of Representative Nixon ?

Mr. Lewis. I did ; yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. Wlien you arrived, were you handed a roll of film
which was manufactured by the Eastman Co. ?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. I show you this roll of film and ask you if it is the
one that was exhibited to you yesterday ?

Mr. Lewis. That's right, Mr. Stripling. This is the film that you
gave to me yesterday.

Mr. Stripling. At our request, did you communicate with your
headquarters to determine the year in which this film was made ?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir.

1386 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Stripltxg, And what year was tliis film made?

Mr. Lewis. This fihn was iiianufactuied by Eastman Kodak Co. in
1937.

Mr. STKirLiNG. That is all, Mr. Cliairman.

Thank you.

Mr. ^luNDT. Yon may call the next witness,

Mr. Stripling. The next witness, Mr. Chairman, is Mr. Sumner
Welles.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Welles, do you solemnly swear the testimony yon
are about to <>iye is the truth, the whole truth, and nothin<^ but tlie
truth, so help you God?

Mr. Weli.ks. I do.

Mr. MuxDT. You may be seated.

TESTIMONY OF SUMNER WELLES

Mr. MuNDT. Will you tell the committee, Mr. Welles, the period
of time in which you served as Under Secretary of State ?

Mr. Weixes. From May 1937 until September 1943.

i\Ir. ^IrNnr. Our reason for callin<T you as a witness. Mr. Welles, is
because it was durinp; the })ei'iod when you were T"^nder Secretary of
State that many of these documents which are exhibits were dated and
during which they were presumably taken from the State DeiMirt-
ment. It is an established policy of the House Committee on TTn-
American Activities that whenever possible, and in the public interest,
jjublic business shall be conducted publicly. We have adopted the
policy, therefore, of taking the ])ublic into our confidence whenever
that can be done in hearings of this type, without injury to anybody's
individual character, or without injury to the public interest.

We are confronted today with this array of documents, many of
them secret in nature, taken from the State Department.

We have asked you to come before us ]irimnrily to seek your counsel,
in the first ])lace because you were Under Secretary of State, and in
the second place, because you are now a private citizen and can give
an objective opinion, since you are no longer connected with the De-
pai'tment of State, as to whether or not the information contained in
these documents is of such a nature and is of such vital concern to
our national security, or high diplomatic purposes that it .would be
against the public interest to have them put in the public rex*ord.

For that reason, so that you can counsel us wisely. T have asked the
chief investigator to show you a few of these documents, to identify
them sufficiently for the record without disclosing their contents, and
then ask you to take your time and read them — some of which have
been shown you ]>reviously — then to tell the conmiittee whether or
not in your opinion it would be in the public interest to put these in
the records where the public can have access to them.

Mr. Hehert. Mr. Chairman, may I say by "in the public interest"
you mean the national security?

^^r. MrxDT. The national security. It is not the purpose of this
committee, I might add, to take out of the record documents which
would simjdy prove eml)arrassing to jieojile perhaps because they were
in the recoi-d, but if the matei-ial talcen from those microfilms is of
vital significance to our national security, or if its pul)li(:ition might

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1387

prove injurious to our diplomatic policies, this committee on its own,
then, certainly has no desire to disclose the contents of those documents.

So we would like to have your evaluation on that basis, whether it
is of such significance that its publication might prove injurious to
the national security interests of America,

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Chairman, for purposes of identifying the
documents, I would like to ask Mr. Welles if the reading aloud into
the record of the material down to here would in any wise violate any
code or restriction of the parties ?

Mr. Welles. No, in no way at all, Mr. Stripling.

Mr. Stripling. This document, Mr. Chairman, which contains the
number 53 in the corner, and taken from the microfilm which has
just been identified by Mr. Lewis, states as follows; it has a stamp
in the right-hand corner which says, "Assistant Secretary of State,
January U, 1938 :

"Mr. Sayre" — that is a part of the stamp. It is dated "Paris,
January 13, 1938 ; received, 3 : 15 p. m." ; the letters " E. D. A." "This
telegram must be closely paraphrased before being conmiunicated to
anyone," and then in parentheses "(D), Secretary of State, Wash-
ington 63, January 13, 6 p. m., section 1, strictly confidential, for the
Secretary."'

I shall now ask Mr. Welles if he will read this document carefully
and tell the committee whether or not the national security would
be violated in his opinion, by the reading of this document into the
public record.

Mr. Welles. Mr. Chairman, after reading this message, it is my
conviction that without regard to the interests of any individual, or
any other interest, the publication at this time of this message would
be prejudicial to the Nation's interests.

Mr. Rankin. Is that one of the documents that was just identified
a while ago by Mr. Wheeler ^

Mr. Stripling. It is, sir.

Mr. Mltndt. Thank you, Mr. Welles. It is not going to be the
purpose of the conmiittee, I might say, to press you for your reasons,
because quite understandably your reasons might be just as prejudicial
to the interests of the Nation as the document itself.

Mr, Welles. That might be the difficult}'.

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Welles, I would like to ask you if in l^^S a docu-
ment was marked "Strictly confidential, for the Secretary," whether
or not it would be classified as a "top secret" document?

Mr. Welles, Decidely so, Mr, Stripling,

Mr, Stripling, I show the witness a document dated January 14,
1938, Paris, received 3 : 35 p, m.^, which also contains a stamp in the
right-hand corner, "Assistant Secretary of State, January 14, 1938,
Mr. Sayre." It contains the number 5 in the corner, Mr. Chairman.
However, from examining the continuity of these documents, I believe
that it should be 55, or that only one-half of the 5 shows. It states,
"E. D. A. This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being
comnuniicated to anyone," and then in parentheses "(D), Secretary
of State, Washington 63, January 13 16, 6 p. m., section 2."

I ask you, Mr. Welles, if you will read this document and tell the
committee whether in your opinion the national security will be
violated in any way by its publication.

1388 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Air. Welles. Mr. Cliairnuiiu this, of course, is the second section
of the same cahlc. of which the first section has already been passed
up to tlie conunittee. Except for tlie fact that it is the second section
of a cable of which the first section, in my jud<j:nient should not be
l)ublishe(l, the second section, taken by itself, contains nothin<r, in my
opinion, which would be detrimenlal to the national interests, were
it t<i be pul)lished.

Mr. MuNi>T. Thank you.

Mr. Stiuplino. Mi-. Chairman, the connnittee has issued a subpena
on Mr. R()i)ert Cleveland, who is the attorney for Whittaker Chambei-s,
calling for him to produce ceitain recoids wiiich were submitted at a
pretrial examination in Baltimore during tiie month of November.
During this pretrial examination, Mr. Whittaker Chambers, while
giving a deposition, submitted a numb^'r of do( umenis which he alleges
under oath were given to him by a person employed in the State De-
partment.

One of these documents, which has been turned over to the committee
in response to the subpena served on Mr. Cleveland, is dated February
15, li);58, 4 p. m. It says: "Telegram sent Andegation, Vienna."

I will ask you, Mr. Welles, to examine this document and tell the
connnittee whether the public interest would be violated, or the na-
tional interest and security would be violated by the publication of
that document.

Mr. Welles. Mr. Chairman, I believe that this document also if
published now would be prejudicial to the Nation's interests.

Mr. MuxuT. Thank you.

Mr. Stkiplinc;. ^Ir. Welles, were any of these messages which I have
shown you, would they be sent in code? Is there anything to indicate
that they were sent in code originally i

Mr. Wei^les. All of these messages, Mr. Stri])ling. oiiginally wei-e
sent in code and undoubtedly those marked "strictly contidential'' or
"strictly confidential, for the Secretary," would piesumably be sent
in one of the most secret codes then in our possession.

Mr. Stuii'linc;. Would the ])ossession of the document as 1 i-an>late(l,
along with the original document as it api)eared in code, furnish an
individual with the necessary infornuition to break the code?

Mr. Weijlics. In my judgment, decidedly yes.

Mr. MiixnT. Mr. Stripling, it would occur to me that inasnnich as
these documents are cjuite apparently of such significance that the con-
tents cannot be disclosed at a public hearing of this nature without
certainly examining each one in detail, that we should not take the
time to do that at this hearing today; that Mr. Welles has served his
purpose as a witness at a public hearing, and at an executive session
we could go into this matter in further detail, for the purpose of help-
ing to sort out the evidence to make sure that nothing of vital danger
to our national secuiify is made public. X^idess you want to take up
these documents with him separately, this would serve to show the
connnittee that we obviously cannot make this nuiterial public at this
time.

M •. SriiiPi.Txr,. The next document I would like to show the witness,
Mr. C hairman, is a niemorancUun which is IG pages long. If you would
like for Mr. Welles to examine it in executive session, that is up to
the committee.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1389

Mr. MuNDT. I think you might as well do it in executive session.
That is a pretty lon<r document to read, and we have before us, at least
the definite conviction of Mr. Welles that the material secured in these
microfilms is of such a nature that if published it would prove highly
prejudicial to the security interests of the Nation, and I see no reason
why he should read each document at this time for that purpose. I
think Mr. Welles can remain with us for a while in executive session
afterward, and we can pursue that at that time.

Mr. Stripling. ]Mr. Welles, while you are on the stand, I would like
to ask if you recall the position of Mr. Francis B. Sayre in the Depart-
ment of State during the period 1938?

Mr. Welles. He was Assistant Secretary of State at that time,
Mr. Stripling.

Mr. Stripling. I have here the register of the Department of State
for 1938, and it says :

Charged with economic, financial, tariff, and general trade questions of such
other duties as may be assijiiied to him by the Secretary of State; Francis B.
Sayre, Assistant Secretary of State ; Alger Hiss, assistant to the Assistant Secre-
tary ; Euni<e A. Lincoln, private secretary ; Anna Belle Newcomb, clerk ; Robert
T. Greenfield, messenger.

Do you know when Mr. Sayre left the Department of State?

Mr. Welles. I am afraid I cannot remember the exact date. That
of course is a matter of record.

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Chairman, in having ISIr. Welles examine these
documents in executive session, I should like very much, if possible, for
him to tell the committee the various departments of the State Depart-
ment that they emanated from, or the proper channels that they would
ordinarily flow through.

Mr. MuNDT. I am sure Mr. Welles would be willing to cooperate.

]\Ir. Welles. In every possible way, Mr. Chairman. ISIay 1 make
one concluding remark at this stage ?

Mr. MuNDT. Yes, sir.

Mr. Welles. I feel, of course, as you indicated in your statement
a few minutes ago, Mr. Chairman, that in determining what is preju-
dicial at this moment to the Nation's security by the publication of
documents of this character, the responsibility should clearly be borne
by the present high ofHcials of the Department of State. For many
years, 5 years, I have been unfamiliar with the official inner workings
of the conduct of our foreign relations, and there may be certain rea-
sons which in the Department the present judgment would render
the publication of documents, which to me would seem safe, undesir-
able, or vice versa. I merely want to make that as a reservation to
the opinion I have offered.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman; I understand that Mr. Peurifoy,
Assistant Secretary of State, is present, and I wonder if it would be
in order to submit some of these statements to him and get his reaction
before we go into executive session.

Mr. MuNDT. He is the next witness.

Mr. Hebert. May I ask some questions?

Mr. Mundt. Mr. Hebert.

Mr. Hebert. Mr. Welles, I understand your position as enunciated
at the moment. May I ask you this : Were you the Under Secretary
of State at the time these documents were received in the State
Department ?

Mr. AVelles. That is correct, sir.

1390 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

]\ri'. Hebert. And at tliat time, would thoii" release to the public, or
their release to unauthorized hands be prejudicial to the best interests
of t lie Nation?

Mr. Welles. In the hifjhest degree prejudicial, and in the highest
degree dangerous to the Nation's interests.

JNIr. Hebeht. Aiul you, as Under Secretary of State at that time,
had you known that there was a leak in the Department, you wouUl
immediately have brought the proper action to bring the guilty parties
to their i)roper disposition?

Mv. Welles. Decidedly so.

Mr. SxiaPLiNG. Mr. Welles, while you were Under Secretary of
State, was it ever necessary that you were called to dismiss or discipline
anyone in the Department of State for violating the resti-ictions of the
Department?

Mr. AVelles. It is my understanding that at the time I was Under
Secretary certain actions taken by the Assistant Secretary then in
charge of administration, with regard to improving the secui-ity of the
code rooms and the cotle employees in the Department of State — I am
afraid I cannot remember, Mr. Stripling, since it did not come directly
within my jurisdiction, exactly what action was taken. To the best
of my recollection certain employees were dismissed and otheis trans-
ferred.

Mr. Stripling. Some were dismissed and others transferred?

Mv. Welles. Yes, sir.

Mr. S'lTtiPLiNG. Those are all the questions I have.

Mr. MuNDT. Mv. McDowell, do you have a question?

Mr. McDowELi.. No questions.

Mv. M'uNDT. Mr. Nixon?

Mr. Nixox. Mr. Welles, in the case of a "strictly confidential for the
Secretary" type of document, as I understand one of these documents
was, at the time you were in the Department of State would such a
document be kept in wdiat you might term a certain type of file for safe-
keeping, and only one or more copies nuide? I woiuUm' if you coidd
enlighten us on that point.

Mv. Welles. The distribution would have been extremely restricted,
and as soon as the documents had been distributed to certain officials
and read by those officials, they were supposed to be collected and
taken to a section of the archives in the Department of State that was
reserved for "strictly confidential"' information.

The exact distribution of documents of that highly confidential
character was determined by the then Seci'etaiT of State, and the
ordei'S were issued fiom his office to the code rooms as to the distri-
bution to be made.

Mr. Xixox. Certainly such a document could not, with any authori-
zation, be removed from the Depaitment for the pui'j)()se of placing it
on microfilm?

Mr. Welles. Undei- no consideration whatever, and no documents
even of a nonconfidential characlei", undei- the icgulat ions' then ob-
taining in the Depaitment. could evt'i- be icmoved foi' any i)Ui"pose
from the Department.

Mv. Nlxox. It is r.iy understanding following the question Mr.
Hebert asked, that you have indicated not only wei'e the two docu-
ments y(ju have examined — not only would it have been prejudicial
to the national interest to have released them then to an unauthorized

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1391

person, but now, 10 years later, it would still be prejudicial to the
national interest to release those documents?

Mr. Welles. In my judgment that is entirely correct, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Vail, any questions?

Mr. Vail. Was the accessibility of these documents limited, Mr.
Welles, to certain people?

Mr. Welles. As I said before, sir, they were distributed in very
restricted form by order from the office of the Secretary of State.
The official to whom they were supposed to go was held responsible
for maintaining their confidential nature, and in general terms I
can say that documents of the kind I have seen would have been ex-
tremely limited in their distribution and should have been regarded
as in the highest degree confidential, and to be kept under lock and
key until they were turned over to the proper custody of the Archives
Division.

Mr. Vail. But then the people to whom these documents were avail-
able would be identified at this time?

Mr. Welles. It would seem so to me.

Mr. Vail. That is all.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Welles, who could establish the identity of the
people to whom these documents would have been made available?

Mr. Welles. I believe that Mr. Peurifoy will probably be able
to tell you more about that than I, Mr. Chairman. I assume the re-
cords have been kept as to the distribution that was authorized at that
time.

Mr. MuNDT. Thank you, very much. We appreciate your coopera-
tion and if you w^ill stand by, we w^ill have an executive session after
this hearing.

Mr. Welles. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MuNDT. The Chair would like to call Mr. John Peurifoy, the
Assistant Secretary of State.

Mr. Peurifoy, do you solemnly swear the testimony you are a;bout to
give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?

Mr. Peurifoy. I do, sir.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN PEURIFOY

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Peurifoy, I believe your title is Assistant Secre-
tary of State in charge of security, at least that describes the purview
of your authority ; is that correct ?

Mr. Peurifoy. In charge of administration, sir, which includes
security.

Mr. MuNDT. And you have held that position since what time?

Mr. Peurifoy. I was appointed on an acting basis January 21, 1947,
confirmed by the Senate March 15, 1947.

Mr. MuNDT. You have been in the room, have you not, and have
heard all of the testimony given by Mr. Sumner Welles?

Mr. Peurifoy. Yes, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. And you heard my preliminary statement prior to
calling him to the stand ?

Mr. Peurifoy. Y"es, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. So that it is unnecessary to repeat the attitude of the
conmiittee which is to make available to the public portions of these

80408— 4S 2

1392 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

docunioiits if tlioy are not piejudicial to the national security, or to
the lii^r'i diplomatic i)iirposes ol" tiie Government, but to take every
conceivable step to safe<2:uard tiie national security, even at this late
hour, by not i)ublishinjr documents which Mr. Welles or which the
State Department feels would j)eril the national security.

Mr. PiXKiFuY. 1 have not seen the documents.

Mr. MuNDT. No; but you understand our objective view?

Mr. Striplin<i: will now show you the docmnents which he showed to
Mr. "\\'elles and ask you some (questions concerning them.

Mr. 1*ki:kif()V. Yes, sir.

Air. Stripling. Mr. Chairman, I will show him the same three
documents, ask that he read Ihem all three carefully, and then we will
take them up in the order in which Mr. AVelles considered them.

Proceed in<2; in order, Mr. Chairman, the iirst document which the
witness has examined is the document dated January 13, 11)38, marked
"Sd'ictlv Confidential for the Secretary," section 1, and si<;nc(l
''Bullitt".''

Do you consider. Mi'. Pi'urifoy, that the publication in tiie record of
this document would jeopardize the national security in any way^

Mr. Pkurifoy. I do, sir. for the same reason that Mr. Welles out-
lined. Section 2 of that telegram taken by itself I think would be
all right, but because of the information in the first section I think
that would not be in the national interest.

Mr. MuxDT. Thank you. l*roceed, Mr. Stripling.

Mr. SiiuPLiNG. The third document is dated Februaiy 15, 1938. It
has previously been identified and is signed ''Hull." 1 will ask you
your opinion of that document.

Mr. AliTNDT. The Cliair would like to ask the ])hotogi-a])liors to be
careful not to photogra})h the text of any of these documents.

Mr. Peurifoy. I do not believe, Mr. Chairman, that the third docu-
ment should be made available to the public in the national interest.

Mr. MuNDT. You do not believe it should be?

Mr. PuFRiFOY. No, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Stripling, have you shown Mr. Puerifoy all three
of the documents?

iSIr. Strifmno. Yes. sir.

Mr, MuNDT. The Chair would like to ask Mr. Puerifoy, having
heard the testimony of Mr. Welles, if you think ]ierhaj)s you could
help the connnittee identify the names of the ))eople in the State
Dei)artment to whom these documents would have been avaihible back
in 1938, whether you can supply us with tiiat infoiination.

Mr. Peurifoy. I am not sure, Mr. Chairman, that those distribu-
tion lists would be still in the Department. That is something I would
have to check. On the original there jirobably is pi-inted a distrilm-
tion of where these documents went. I am not sure whetlier this is
a copy or whether it is the actual original copy. That would show the
actual distribution and I think it would be the best source to check
that from. AVe could, however, go into it.

Mr. MuNDT. In your position in the State Department you could
check and determine whether such a list was available; could you
not?

Mr. Peurifoy. Yes, sir.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1393

Mr. MuNDT. Would you be willing to do that, and if you find it,
would you give us the names of the people who did receive such
documents ?

Mr. PuERiFOY. Yes, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. Thank you very much.

Mr. Rankin, have you any questions ?

Mr. Raniun. I have a question of Mr. Stripling.

I Avanted to ask Mr. Stripling how many more of these documents
he has.

Mr. Stripling. I haven't counted them, Mr. Rankin. I would say
there would probably be — well, all of these documents did not come
from the State Department, Mr. Rankin.

Mr. Rankin. 1 know, but how many of these secret documents
have you?

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Wheeler says there are approximately 200 pages,
which have been developed.

:Mr. ]\IuNDT. Mr. Hebert.

Mr. Hebert. Mr. Peurifoy, in your position in charge of security
for the State Department, would you say that documents in the
number of 200 pages removed from the Department would prima facie
indicate that they had been taken for a purpose detrimental to the
United States Government?

Mr. Peurifoy. I would so.

Mr. Hebert. And anybody taking them could not be perchance, or
by accident ; it would have to be some systematic removal of these docu-
ments from the files for a purpose not in the interests of the United
States Government ?

Mr. Peurifoy. I would agree with that, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Peurifoy, could you imagine anybody taking those
records from the State Department who didn't do it with some ulterior
and unpatriotic motive ?

Mr. Peurifoy. Well, actually, sir, under the regulations, the security
regulations of the Department of State, no one is supposed to take
documents like that out, even for their own use at home at night to
study. They are supposed to remain in the Department.

Mr. Nixon. May I follow that, Mr. Peurifoy ?

Mr. Peurifoy. Yes, sir.

Mr. Nixon. I understand that where a document is classified, at
least where it is classified to the extent of "Strictly Confidential" or
"Strictly Confidential for the Secretary," that the document is not
supposed to be removed from the Department to the person's home?

Mr. Peurifoy. That is right, sir.

Mr. Nixon. And if a documeijt of such a nature were removed to a
person's home, and there copied or there digested by that person, that
in itself would be a breach of the State Department's rules?

Mr. Peurifoy. It would, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. McDowell.

Mr. McDow^ELL. No ; no further questions.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Vail ?

Mr. Vail. No questions.

Mr. Hebert. May I ask another ?

Mr. Mundt. Mr. Hebert.

Mr. Hebert. Mr. Peurifoy, these documents were originally highly
restricted and even to this date their publication would be against the

1394 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

iintioiial security. Does it thei-efore follow that anvbodv haviusr as
of this date those (lociiineiits in their possession has them in their pos-
session ill('<rally and in violation of the law?

Mr, Peurifoy. Yes, sir.

All". Hkkkrt. You are not referrinir to the cominiKee. T ]iresuine.
V>'e have them legally. But any individual having those doeuinents,
even as of this date — in other words — let me make myself elear in lan-
guage we can all possibly understand.

Tf T took one of those documents, as a member of the committee,
and gave it to Joe Blow outside on the street, Joe Blow would then be
subject to prosecution for having in his possession a document illegally,
is that correct?

'Mv. Pkitkifoy. That is clear to me. sir. T am not a lawyer.

Mr. Hkcekt. I am not a lawyer, either; that is why 1 have to talk in
layman's language.

Ml-. Rankix. I am a lawyer. If he illegally took them from the
recoi'ds he would violate tlie law by accepting tliem.

Mr. pKiHiFov. Well, I don't know whether Joe Blow woidd know
this was an illegal docmnent he was getting.

IVfi-. Hebert. Of course. T am assiuning he would know it. Tn other
Avoids. T am trying to establish now for obvious reasons the fact that
if anybody had in theii' j)ossessi()n these documents illegally, and
knowingly having them in their possession illegally, is guilty, so that
the law of proscription would I'un against them.

IVfr. PErRTFov. That Avould be my undei-standing.

IVfr. Rankin. Let me ask you another (|uestion. Suppose someone
in the State Department should copy some of these documents, wouldn't
that be a violation of the law?

Mr. Pei^rifov. And dispose of tluMU outside the De]iartment?

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mr. PEiTtiFOY. Yes, sir.

]\rr. Rankin. Then would it he a violation of the law for him to
co])y it at any rate for his own ]iersonal use?

Air. l^EiRiFOY. Well, he might make a paiaphrase. dictate it to a
stenographer, in order to pass it to another official in the Dejiartment,
but if you mean taking a pencil and wiiting it out. 1 would say that
would be a A-ery unusual pi'ocedure.

Mr. Raxkin. You are certainly of the o]>inion that if he copied
them for the purpose of distribution he A'iolated the law?

Mr. Pefrifoy. Unless it Avere authorized by higher ]ieople; yes,
sir.

Mr. STRiriJXG. Mr. Chairman, since this point has come up. I would
like foi- Mr. Peurifoy to read three other documents T have here, as
I Avould like to <ret the status of the documents whiih were turned
ovei' by Mr. Chambers at the pretrial deposition.

Mr. Afi'NDT. Very Avell,you Avill identify the documents — give them
to Afr. Peurifoy.

My. Strii'linc. T am going to ask that he read this Avithoiit i<lenti-
fication. AFi-. Chairman, because this matter for the moment is highly
confidential.

Mr. Mundt. Alark it with some exhibit number, then, so that Ave
can identify it in the record.

Mr. Stripling. Yes, sir.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1395

These are three handwritten menioranda. We are aware of who
wrote the menioranda from the handwriting. But I would like to
determine whether or not it would be improper or unlawful to remove
this type of memoranda from the State Department, which contains
highl}^ confidential State Department documents.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Stripling, so the question will be clear, your question
is whether or not it would have been unlawful to remove that type of
memoranda in 1938 at the time the memoranda were written?

Mr. Stkiplixg. That is right.

Mr. Nixon. It is not the question we had previously asked as to
whether or not the disclosure of that information today would be
prejudicial to the national interests?

IMr. Peurifoy. That is correct.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Puerifoy, you have examined the documents. The
committee would like to have your opinion of them.

ISIr. Plterifoy. IVIr. Chairman, I would regard anyone making notes
of what I have seen here, in personal handwriting, and taking them out
of the Department of State, as violating certainly all the security regu-
lations of the Department.

Mr. MuNDT. Would you also consider the publication of that material
now prejudicial t6 the public interest, in the event they put a photo-
static copy of it in the record, together with the identity of the man
who wrote that memorandum?

]\Ir. Puerifoy. I would rather not answer that quite as categorically
as I did the first telegi'ams. I would rather say this : That this might
prove embarrassing to us in our relations with another nation. I do
not think it would prejudice our national interests, if you get the dis-
tinction.

Mr. MuNDT, It is not whether it proves embarrassing; it is the na-
tional security that is involved.

INIr. Peurifoy. I don't think it would injure our national security,
in other words, if this document were published.

Mr. MuxDT. Wliereas it might interfere with our diplomatic nego-
tiations?

Mr. Peurifoy. Yes, sir.

Mr. Nixox. Your point is, then, that the release of these documents
in your opinion would, to use a term that doesn't go as far, would
possibly injure the United States? It could possibly, due to the fact
that it would place us in a poorer bargaining position with another
nation ?

Mr. Peurifoy. x\t this particular state of affairs in the world; yes,
sir.

Mr. Nixox. If you, as a State De})artment official, were to make the
decision as to whether or not the information contained in these docu-
ments just shown to you should be made public or not, your decision
would 1)6 tliat it should not be made public ?

Mr. Peurifoy. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Nixox. If you had the decision to make ?

Mr. Peurifoy. That is correct, sir.

INIr. ISIuxDT. Mr. Hebert.

Mr. Hebert. Mr. Peurifoy, the documents you have just read and
the photostatic copy of handwriting that you saw, would you say, in
your judgment, that the individual who did make that memorandum

1396 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

ill his own handwi-itincr would be doin<r so for some purpose other
tliMii liis ofllciiil activity as a nienib(>r of tlie Dopartiiiont of State?
Would there he any reason for an indivi(hial to make a memorandum
such as you just looked at, in his own handwriting?

Mr. pKiiMKov. Xo, sir; not in mv judgment.

Ml-. IIkbkut. There wouldn't bet

Mr. Pki lUFOY. No, sir.

Mr. IIkhkkt. Then if an individual did, in your judgment, make
such memorandum and in iiis own handwriting, you would have to
assume he did it for some ulterior motive?

Mr. Ppn-HiFOY. I thiidv tliat is right, sir.

3rr. Nixox. ;Mr. Peurifoy, there is a point that I am interested in
from a legal standpoint as regards the committee. I might say that
ah)ng with Mr. Stripling, the chief investigator, we had a conversa-
tion with two representatives from the State Department a few days
ago, in regard to the security problem involved in these documents.
It was my understanding — and I cannot recall exactly the words of
the conversation— but it was my understanding that there is a law
at the present time which makes it illegal to ])lace in a record, or to
have in your possession, any document involving a confidential code.

Now, I do not know if that question is sufficiently clear for you to
understand what T mean.

Mr. Peirifoy. Yes, sir; I know.

Mr. Nixon. Would you enlighten the committee on that point?

Mr. PF:iTRir()Y. I think vou are referring to what is known as the
Yardly Act.

Mr. Nixon. That is correct.

Mr. Pkurifoy. Which ])rohibits the transcribing of diplomatic
notes into, say, the form of a letter, a note to a personal friend, or to
coj)y it down and take it out of the Department. A person would be
liable to a $10.()()0 hue, and I think up to 10 years' imprisonment for
doing such a thing.

Mr. Nixox. Now, to pursue that a step further, if a diplomatic
note, as you term it, were transcribed into the records of a coiinnittee
of Congress, would the people involved and the committee of Congress
be technicallv guiltv for violation of the law?

Mr. Peirifoy. I am sorry. Mr. Nixon. 1 could not answer that ques-
tion, because I do not know what the relations would be vis-a-vis the
committee of Congress.

Mr. NixoN. Thank you.

Mr. ^^l■XI)T. Mr. Peurifoy, you were here when T suggested to Afr.
Welles that in view of the highly secret and signilicant sti-alegic nature
of these documents we were not going to ask you to examine them all,
but we would like to have you join Mr. AVelles and the committee im-
mediatelv iifter the hearing of these ])ublic hearings in executive session
downstairs to consider these documents at greater length, ^du will
be available for that ?

Mr. Peurifoy. Yes, Afr. Chairman.

Mr. AfuxoT. T would like to express the a]i)>reciation of the commit-
tee to you, sir, in youi' cooperative attitude in bringing to the chair-
man, if possible, the identity of the people who had access to these
particular documents, because that would be very hel|)ftd tn tlie
committee.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1397

I might say we have been in contact with the FBI, and the com-
mittee is going to make available to the P'BI a photostatic copy of ail
the documentary evidence that we have. The FBI has agreed to
cooperate fully for the purpose of helping to reproduce, with its im-
proved techniques and devices, some of these illegible documents that
we now have, and we have agreed, sir, to provide you, as the security
officer of the State Department, also a photostatic copy of all these
documents in our possession.

Mr. Peurifoy. I appreciate that very much, Mr. Chairman. We
would like very much to have copies of all these documents, if we may.

Mr. MuNDT. We appreciate your cooperative attitude. The thing
we are trying to do is to determine who took them out.

Mr. Rankin. There can be no question about those documents being
copied from the records of the State Department, can there? There
is no question but they are copies of State Department records?

Mr. Peurifoy. The documents I have seen, Mr. Rankin, I would say
''Yes" ; there is no question about it, the documents I have seen. I don't
know about the others.

Mr. MuNDT. Thank you very much, Mr. Peurifoy, and I might say
before we break up, it is a sad commentary, but it certainly stands
axiomatically before us all when we find in the possession of Russian
agents in this country material so secretive and so vital to our national
defense that we cannot make it available to the American public.

That seems to be the situation we are now confronted with.

The meeting stands adjourned.

(Whereupon, at 4 p. m., the committee adjourned, to reconvene in
executive session.)

HEAEINCtS RECTARDINrx COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE IN
THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT-PART TWO

wednesday, december 8, 1948

United States House of Representatives,

Special Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,

Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 8 p. m., in the caucus
room. Old House Office Building, Hon. Karl E. Mundt (acting chair-
man) presiding.

Committee members present: Representatives Karl E. Mundt (act-
ing chairman), John McDowell, Richard M. Nixon, Richard B. Vail,
John E. Rankin, and F. Edward Hebert.

Staff members present: Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator;
Louis J. Russell and William A. Wheeler, investigators; Benjamin
Mandel, director of research ; and A. S. Poore, editor.

Mr. Mundt. The subcommittee will come to order, please, with the
record showing as present the chairman. Mr. McDowell, Mr. Nixon,
Mr. Vail, Mr. Rankin, and Mr. Hebert.

Mr. Stripling, will you please call the witness for this evening?

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Isaac Don Levine.

Mr. Mundt. Mr. Levine, will you raise your right hand and be
sworn ?

You promise to swear the testimony you are about to give is the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Levine. I do.

Mr. Mundt. Thank you. Will you be seated ?

TESTIMONY OF ISAAC DON LEVINE

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Levine, will you please state your full name
and present address?

Mr. Levine. Isaac Don Levine, Norwalk, Conn.

Mr. Stripling. Where were you born ?

Mr. Levine. Russia.

Mr. Stripling. When?

Mr. Levine. February 1, 1892.

Mr. Stripling. What place in Russia ?

Mr. Levine. A town by the name of Mozir,

Mr. Stripling. When did you come to the United States ?

Mr. Levine. October 1911.

Mr. Stripling. When did you l)ecome a citizen of the United States?

Mr. Levine. In the spring of 1918.

Mr. Stripling. What is your occupation ?

1399

1400 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Levixe. Writer and editor.

Mr. Stripling. Would you give the connnittee a brief resume of
your j)rofessional background?

Mr. Levixe. I staited as a free-lance writer for the Kansas City
Star, 1914; was foreign-news editor of the New York Tribune, 11)17;
wrote my first book on the lliissian revolution, published by Harper's
and published abroad, in 1J)17; went to Russia as a correspondent for
the Chicago Daily News and the New York Globe early in 191J); con-
tinued for several years partly as a correspondent for the Hearst news-
papers; took a trip all over Russia in U)2l\, the first unoflicial senatorial
conunission of inquiry, headed by Senator King and the late Senator
Ladd. When I retui-ned to the United States, I took uj) literary work;
headed a book clul) called the Book League of America; continued to
M'rite books and collaborate on books dealing with the history of the
Russian revolution.

This brought me in touch with a number of forniei- Soviet emjiloyees,
agents, and adherents like the former (ieneral Krivitsky; Jan Valtin,
whose Out of the Night I had edited; more recently Kravchenko,
whose first articles I collaborated on, and a number of others perhaps
too long to enumerate.

Since then — that is, since October 194C — I have been editing an
anti-Communist and anti-Fascist political review of strong liberal,
true liberal tendencies, named Plain Talk.

Mr. STKirLiXG. Mr. Levine. for several montlis the Committee on
Un-American Activities has luid under investigation tlie oi)erations of
the so-called Comnmnist apparatus within the Government, from the
period of 1934 through the early part of 1938. During this investi-
gation we had before us an individual by the name of "\^^littaker
Chamljers. Do you know Whit taker Chambers?

Mr. HebI':rt, Air. Chairman.

Mr. Mt xiyr. Mr. Hobert.

Afr. Hep.ekt. Before Mr. Levine begins liis testimony tonight, T un-
derstand, Mr. Levine, you I'equested to appear here in ))ublic liearing
in order to give in ])ublic hearing the testimony which you gave in
executive session previously; is that correct?

Mr. Levixe. No, sir. I wanted to a])])ear in order to am[)lify the
testimony which I gave briefly in executive session.

Mr. Hebekt. In other words, I understand your a])])earance here to-
night is for the purpose of amplifying what previously is in the
record ?

Mr. Levixe. Yes, sir; and to add facts.

Mr. Heuekt. New facts which would be of interest to the com-
li lit tee?

Mr. Levixe. And to the coiuitry ; yes, sir.

Mr. Hebekt. May I ask, before you begin to testify, do you intend
to name any new names tonight that have not heretofore been pro-
jected into these hearinirs?

Mr. Stuii'lino. Mr. Hebeit, may I interrupt?

Have you read the i)roceedings before this committee on the partic-
u1:ii- matter undei- investigation?

Mr. Levixe. Yes, sir: I have read the hearings, indeed. T have ivad
the ])roceedings. I am familiar with the contents of the ixnord.

Air. Strh'mxg. I am sure what you have in mind, Mr. Ilebert, is
that names beyond those which are not already in the public record.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1401

Mr. MuNDT. May the Chair suggest, then, if you have read the
hearings and know the names that have already been mentioned, that
should in the course of your remarks you feel inclined to mention
a name which has not previously appeared in the record, that before
mentioning any such name you write it on a piece of paper and give
it to the investigator, so he can submit it to the committee.

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. Because we are desirous not to bring into the picture
any new names without first having an ox)j)ortunity to study the
situation.

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hebert. And in furtherance of that, Mr. Chairman, I would
like to say this : I would like to know in which connection Mr. Levine
intends to bring any new names in. The fact that he writes them on
a piece of paper is not satisfactory to me. I want to know how he can
connect those names up, and if he intends to bring any new names in,
as I expressed myself before, I will immediately move for an executive
session.

Mr. MuNDT. It is understood he is not going to bring any new names
in until he writes them out.

Mr. Hebert. I know, not only bring any new names in, but associate
unnamed individuals with the situation which he is about to describe.

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. Hebert. That is understood?

Mr. Levine. That is perfectly understood.

Mr. Hebert. With that understanding, I have no objection to the
public hearing.

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Hebert, the reason that we would like to get the
testimony of Mr. Levine is that according to our investigation he was
possibly the first — the first that we know of — the first person that
Whittaker Chambers went to after he broke away from the Com-
munist Party and the Communist apparatus. I think he is in posses-
sion of vital facts and information which should be in the record of
these proceedings.

Mr. Hp:bert. 1 have no objection there, Mr. Stripling, to mentioning
or elaborating on what we already know, but specifically I have in
mind right now these two names which Mr. Whittaker Chambers
named as individuals who handed him Department of State secrets, or
other confidential data. I object to those two names being projected
into a public hearing, until those individuals have been brought before
the committee in a private hearing and we hear them.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Rankin.

Mr. Rankin. I want to say in this connection that this is one of the
most vital questions that has come before the Congress in the last
quarter of a century. LTndoubtedly there are other people involved,
and it is the duty of this committee to find out who those people are,
and to bring them to justice. So far as I am concerned, I am not:
willing to put any witness in a strait-jacket and try to tell him what to

If this witness knows of any other individuals who engaged in this
treasonable conspiracy to steal these records from the State Depart-

1402 COMMUNIST ESPIOXAGE

nient and tiii'ii them over to a foreijifii ])()wer, ho oiiirht to tt-U us who
those |)e<»j)le are ami I shall not join in any attempt to i)revent him
from namin<r tliem.

Mr. Hkbkkt. Mi-. Rankin, may I say this: I don't want to ])ut the
witness in a sti-ait-jacket. You understand, as well as anyl)ody else,
how 1 feel ahout the matter. I am merely ti\viu<2; to possii)ly protect
individuals who are not ai)le to protect themselves, and 1 want to ^et
to the facts as much as you. hut I do not lend myself to hriiiirinii' names
lip in puhlic hefore the individiuil knows anythin<i- ahout it or hefore
we know anythin<i- ahout it.

]Mr. Raxkin. Well, the welfare of this conulry and the safety of
this country means more than the exposui'e of the name of auv indi-
vidual who eni2:a<res in activities of this kind.

Mr. MiNDT. I think the witness has understood the instructions of
the Chair.

Mr. Hki'.eht. Do T understand the witness is jjoin<i to follow the
instructions i

Mr. MrxDT. Yes; he has said so.

Mr. Raxkix. Mr. Chaiiiuan. we usually follow the rules of pro-
cedure here of the House of Kei)iesental i\es, and the I'ules of evidence
followed hy tiie courts. So. whenever the witness attempts to answer
a question, or a question is asked that a memher objects to, why. then
he can raise the objection. Otherwise we are supposed to proceed with
the hearin<r.

Mr. MrxDT. The witness will proceed. It is dillicult for the Chair
to undei-stand how Democrats can disagree so much durin<r the year
and a^ree so much on election day, but it seems t(j he that way.
[Lauii'hter.]

Will the witness proceed?

Mr. Levine. Mr. Chairman, in answerinii; the (|uestioii of .Mr.
Sti'i|)lin<;. may I be permitted to say a few words of int loduct ion ^

Mr. ^frxirr. Surely.

Mr. Levixe. I have known Mi-. Chambers for nearly 10 years

Mr. Stkiplixo. Just a minute. Mr. Levine. Is that a statement ?

Ml-. Levixe. No. it is not a statement, it is just two sentences.

Mr. Stijii'mxc. Yes: all riirht.

Mr. MrxDT. Proceed.

Mr. Levine. I want to express my profound <:ratification that a
committee of Conjfjress has, after 10 years of hopeless, futile, and
strenuous efforts to break throucfh this ])articular consi>ira(-y. has at
last seen fit to brino- it at last l)efore the American people and the
world at laro:e in its true dimensions. I simply feel that I am fjrate-
ful as a citizen of the Un'ited States, to this body of the Conjrress, for
doiuir the wonderful job it has been doinir in this ])arti(ular case.

Mi-. S'riiii'EiX(;. Now, Mr. Levine. when did you first meet Whit-
taker Chambers?

Mr. Levixe. Around the latter ])art of April or the l)eo:inning of
Mav 1989.

Mr. Stuiplixo. 1989?

Mr. Levixe. Yes. sir.

Mr. S'liuruxo. Would you describe to the committee the circum-
stances of your meetiu"! this individual?

Mr. Levixe. He came to me throuo:h a nnitual friend after I had
collaborated on the articles of General Krivitsky, which were appear-

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1403

ino; serially at that time in the Saturday Evening Post. He came with
a manuscriiJt Avhich contained a great deal around and about a vast
espionage apparatus in the United States, but which lacked the kind
of facts to make it publishable at that time in the state of American
public opinion then.

I so advised him. I developed a friendship with him. He was as
scared as any — I don't want to use the word ""rabbit"' — as any hunted
animal, and it Avas unbelievable to me that a native American citizen
should fear his own shadow in the daylight in the streets of New
York, in the center of the city.

As a result of the acquaintanceship and the friendship which I
developed with him, I induced him to meet Krivitsky.

Mr. Stkiplixi;. Xow, ;it this point, would you describe or identify
General Krivitsky? He was a witness, Mr. Chairman, before this
committee, I believe, in 1930.

Mr. Levin?:. Gen. "Walter Krivitsky, who was found mysteriously
shot and fatally shot in a AVashington hotel, I believe in the beginning
of February 1941, had occupied a position of the chief of military
intelligence or counterespionage for the Soviet Government in western
Europe.

jMr. STRirLixo. For what government?

]\Ir. Levine. The Soviet Government. He had never been in the
United States, but he knew a good many top Soviet agents who had
journeyed to the United States on various secret errands. I was
anxious to have Mr. Chambers meet Krivitsky so as to check on the
veracity of both of them and so as to accumulate the kind of evidence
I thought the American people should have.

Mr. Rankin. Well, now, right at this point

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr, Rankin. I think it ought to be brought out that General Krivit-
sky was a refugee from communism in Russia.

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. The Communist regime in Russia had, you might say,
a price set on his head.

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir ; exactly.

Mr. Rankin. And many people think he was murdered in his hotel
here, and I am one of the men who thinks he was murdered.

Mr. Levine. I think, sir, it is a very tenable theory. It simply has
never been proved.

Mr. MuNDT. I didn't quite understand one statement. I thought
you said that General Krivitsky had never been to the United States.

Mr. Levine. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Before.

Mr. Levine. Never been to the United States before.

Mr. MuNDT. Before when?

Mr. Levine. Before his arrival here in December 1938.

Mr. MuNDT. That is what I wanted to find out. He came here
in 1938 ?

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. MuNDT. Thank you.

Mr. Levine. But he had known over a number of years before of
various agents who had commuted between secret points in Europe and
other points in the United States.

Mr. MuNDT. That would be anti-Soviet or anti-Communist agents?

1404 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Levine. Soviet agents. He was a man who was on the inside
of the secret service and iiitelli<;ence headquai'tcrs in Moscow, and his
information was vast.

Mr. Raxkix. He nnule one of the best witnesses before the Dies
Committee on Un-American Activities tliat I liave ever heard, I mean
in ox])osinir the workinirs of (•oiiiiminisin in Russia.

Mr. Lkmnk. 1 :ini ac(iuainted with the record; I am sorry 1 wasn't
present at the hearinp:s. I qnite agree.

I want to get on. Mr. Stripling, in answer to yonr qnestion.

Ml'. Stku'Linc. ^fi'. Cliainuaii. I want to get (he continuity liere, if
I C()ul(L

Mr. Muxirr. Proceed, Mr. Stripling, and interrogate the witness.

Mr. STiupnixG. Go ahead, sir.

Mr. Levixe. The meeting that I arranged between Chambers and
Krivitsky — and Chambers was very fearful and suspicious that 1
might l)e leading him into a trap — started some time in the evening.
I was present for 2 or 3 or 4 hours and as I have repeated before,
when I awoke in the morning at 7: 30 or 8 o'clock in the moi-ning, the
light was still on in the front room, and the two men were still talking
over coffee.

But durinor {]]q hom-s that I witnessed the convei-sation a mnuber
of things developed which showed how these two men mutually sup-
})lemenle(l and com))lemented tlieir particular bits of knowledge. It
was like fitting a jig-saw puzzle together and it was astonishing. And
the most astonishing thing that developed that night was the identi-
fication of the man who is now in the press under the name of Colonel
liykov. That occurred in my presence.

Mr. Chambers, I believe, did not know him under that name. He
simi)ly described a very high top-secret officer of the Soviet secret
service in this country, under an alias.

Mr. STKiruNO. And wdiat was the alias?

Mr. Levtxe. I believe that the alias at that time was Peters, but
T am sure that two or three other aliases were mentioned and one of
them immediately led to an exchange of physical identification maiks.
And I remember it very vividly for the following reasons:

First, Krivitsky described him as a man with singular, reddish eyes.
He was small, had red hair, came from Odessa, and described him a;>
a very dangerous man.

"When he found out from Chambers that this man was here and that
Chambers knew him, I think he turned livid several times. There is
no doubt in my mind from the remarks that Ki-ivitsky made that he
regarded him as one of Stalin's ace opei-atives.

Mr. Striplixg. Did he state that he had any personal knowledge oi-
this man Colonel Bykov operating in any other country of the world
with the Soviet police?

Mr. Levixe. I am sure that he stated that Colonel Bykov — that he,
Kiivitsky, had crossed the ])ath of Colonel Bykov in dozens of different
places, jVrobably from Italy to Holland, because Krivitsky had oi)er-
ated, before coming to the United States, in half a dozen westein
European countries.

Mr. Striplixg. Go ahead, Mr. Levine.

Mr. MuxDT. Proceed.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1405

Mr. Levine. After this first meeting, when Mr. Chambers found
that his articles could not be published because he was not prepared
at that time to incorporate in them the material which I thought was
essential to their marketability, Mr. Chambers and I did not see each
other very much for some weeks or months until the Stalin-Hitler
pact bombshell was, shall we say, exploded on August 23d, I believe, or
24th, 1939.

By that time I was convinced from numerous conversations with
Krivitsky that the Soviet Government had our codes; that the Soviet
Government was getting a torrent of information from numerous
Government bureaus in the United States; that the Soviet Govern-
ment had at least one agent in the United States Embassy in Moscow
who supplied Soviet secret service with information right on the spot.

And that the Soviet Government spends a fortune in carrying out
a single assignment of its secret service.

I asked Mr. Chambers if he would come forward, in view of the
international situation, the threat of war which we regarded not as
imminent, but as tantamount to a declaration of war — that is the way
I, for instance, Krivitsky, and a few of us regarded the Stalin-Hitler
Pact — and Mr. Chambers felt the same way, reacted instantly and
said to me, "If you could take me to the President of the United
States it wouldn't take any time with the evidence in my possession
to crack this case wide open."

Mr. Stripling. Can you remember exactly, or approximately, when
that was?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. That was within 48 hours of the signing of
the Stalin-Hitler Pact. The conversation took place in the neighbor-
hood of the Time offices, the offices of Time, and Mr. Chambers, who
was still a very fearful man at that time, gave me a memorandum
with his private telephone number then, which I have retained, on
this Time office stationery.

I told him I knew President Roosevelt's private secretary, ]\lclntyre,
or one of his secretaries, rather. In fact,^ it so happens that I also
knew the late President Roosevelt, slightly, but not too well, but I
have had a short conversation with him once. And I undertook to
proceed to Washington.

I saw Mr. Mclntyre. I believe I mentioned Chambers' name to
him. I think the conversation probably lasted 10 or 15 minutes.
I sketched

IVIr. Stripling. Pardon me. Where did you see Mr. Mclntyre ?

Mr. Levine. When or where?

Mr. Stripling. Where?

Mr. Levine. In the White House in his office, adjacent to the press
room.

Mr. Stripling. Did you call him before you came to Washington ;
did you make an appointment?

Mr. Levine. I probably did ; I do not recall. It was not necessary
for a newspaperman to do that. You could drop in, wait a few
minutes, and talk to the man. He was a very friendly person.

Mr. Stripling. But did you go to see Mr. Mclntyre for the sole
purpose of bringing this matter to his attention ?

Mr. Levine. For the sole purpose, and I came to Washington for
that sole purpose.

Mr. Stripling. All right, go ahead.

1406 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Lkvixe. I sketclied tlie storv in a few inimites. Mr. Mclntyre,
of course, was acquainted with tlie Krivitsky articles. I tliink we dis-
cussed it for a couple of minutes, lie asked lue some (pu'stions. You see,
Krivitsky had foretold the Staliu-IIitler i)act and that jMit me in a
preferred position with Mr. Mclntyre because I saw him '1 or ;> days
after the Stalin-TIitlcr i)act, and when the article had lirst been pub-
lished in Afarch V.V-V.K there were even editoi's on the Saturday EveniuiX
Post — wliich has a lar^e staff, of cour.se, of editors — who doubted that
particular article.

That ])aved the way for my conversation with Mi-. McTntyre. "Mr.
Mclntyre was very sympathetic, vei-y friendly, but he intimated that
this is not a matter that the President himself should, at such a critical
time — it was a rather excitinjj and critical time on the eve of the war —
shall we say, to handle. This was not a matter for the Pn^sident. and
he sufjofested that — he asked me if I knew Mr. Berle, who at that time
was Assistant Secretary of State, Adolph A. Perle, Jr., and I said I
did. He informed me, and that was the first time I heard about that
fact, that Mr. Berle, amonir other duties, was handlin<i: liaison with our
intelli<ience bureaus and divisions of the (loveriunent.

He tele|)honed Mr. Berle. It wasn't necessary, ^fr. Berle later
testified that he telephoned to him and I went over and saw Mi-. Berle.

Mr. Berle. of course, had no knowledfje whatsoever of the existence
of Mr. Chambers, but he had known me over a lon<x period of years
just on and off, casually, and I think he had confidence in me. I told
him that this man wanted to see the President, what he had, and he
will not come to the State Department because if T brouirht him to the
State De})artment he feared bein^ rec()<riiized and identified, but he
would come to some private place. Whereupon, Mr. Berle was kind
enough to arran«re for a dinner at his home at the Woodley House, the
house which was the propei-ty of former Secretary of War Stimson,
which Mr. Berle w-as occupying at the time, and there we met the
night of September 2.

Mr. Chambers flew in from New York.

Mr. MuNHT. September 2, 1089?

IVfr. LE\axE. 10;^9. It is a memorable night, because the fate of the
■world was hanging in the balance between September 1, after the attack
on Poland, and September 8, the declaration of war by France and
Great Britain upon Germany.

There were four of us at dinner. I am cognizant of the fact that
Mr. Berle, who was very tired from working 16 and 18 hours a day,
later stated, or testified that he didn't remember my ]^resence.

Subsequently he telephoned me and I straightened him out on the
facts, and he was gracious enough to acknowledge that 1 was cori'ect,
because I described to him exactly how Mrs. Berle sat. where I sat,
where Chambers sat. Avhere he sat. the corner of the room — I had
never been to the house before and have never been there since — the
corner of the room after dinner where we re|)aired to. the desk where
he made notes when Chambers spoke. It was a hot night : we went
out and sat under the big tree as we talked for an houi- or so. 1 re-
called all that to him.

Mr. Chambers unfolded a picture which, as you ab-eady know,
showed a systematic, highly organized api)aratus looting not only the
State De])artinent. but he was particulaily familiar with the State
Department, but Government files in many bureaus in Washington.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1407

When I got back to the Hay- Adams Hotel I made notes.

Mr. Stripling. Now, how long did your conversations with Mr.
Berlelast?

Mr. Levine. The dinner conversation in the presence of Mrs. Berle
did not touch upon any of the purposes of the evening, it was light
talk. Subsequently, I should say 3 hours.

Mr. Stripling. Three hours ?

Mr. Levine. At least.

Mr. Stripling. Now, Mr. Chambers, did he tell his story to Mr.
Berle, or did you tell it for him ?

Mr. Levine. No.

Mr. Stripling. He told it ?

Mr. Levine. Mr. Chambers told the story ; occasionally I reminded
him of something that he may have told me that I knew of which
fitted into a detail.

Mr. Stripling. How much detail did Mr. Chambers go into with
Mr. Berle ? For example, did he name the people ?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

JNIr. Stripling. He gave him the names of people in the Department
of State, for example ?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. Whom he said were looting or taking files and doing
what with them ?

Mr. Levine. Transmitting them, photostating them, and transmit-
ting them to Soviet agents, secret Soviet agents, to be sent to Moscow.

Mr. Stripling. Did Mr. Berle express any alarm over Mr. Cham-
bers' story ?

Mr. Levine. I definitely remember that Mr. Berle was deeply im-
pressed and very much concerned over it. The purpose, if I may say a
word here, of that meeting was for Mr. Berle to go to the President.
That was understood beforehand between Mr. Berle and myself.

Mr. Stripling. Why was Mr. Chambers so insistent on getting this
matter before the President ; do you know ?

Mr. Levine. Yes, I do know.

Mr. Stripling. Can you tell the committee why ?

Mr. Levine. Yes. Because Mr. Chambers felt that with w^ar on,
regardless of the consequences, as a patriotic American, he had to act
and he could not sit on that information. It was the war that enabled
me to bring Mr. Chambers to Washington.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Levine.

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Would you mind submitting to the committee at this
time the names of the individual^ whom you say Mr. Chambers gave
to Mr. Berle that night?

Mr. Levine. Sir

Mr. Rankin. Who were looting the records of the State Depart-
ment.

Mr. Levine. I would rather not do it. I think it should be done in
executive session, and if I am permitted, Mr. Chairman, I would like
to give my reason for it. My information, after all, is second-hand.
Mr. Chambers' information is first-hand. I came here really to talk
about something else, about the efforts of an American and a few
others to break through the conspiracy of silence, and that is what I
would like the members of this committee to listen to.

80408— 48— pt. 2—3

140S COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Stripijxg. Mr. T^'viiie, let me interrupt you.

Mr. Lkmxk. Yes, sir.

Mr. SriurLiNG. This coiniiiiltee is ))riiiri|);illy concerned now-

Mr. Kaxkix. Now, just a moment riirlit tliere. I don't want to let
that statement p:o unanswered. I am willin<>- to wait and get this
information in executive session, but what you are sayin<>: is not hear-
say testimony, because you. according to your statement, hearil Mr.
Chambers tell the Under Secretary of State that there were indi-
viduals, ^ivin<r their names, in the State Department, looting; the State
l)e])artment of documents or records that wci-e of \ilal interest to
the safely of the Nation.

Mr. Levixe. Sir, will you permit me to answer the question as fol-
lows: The names of Al<rer Hiss and Donald Hiss wei-e amoufj those
wliich T recoi'ded on y)a]ier in ink upon my return to the hotel.

^Ir. Sriai'Lixci. What hotel were you st()p|)iu<j: at ^

Mr. Levine. Hay-Adams House in "Washiuirton.

Mr. Striplixg. Yon mean after this conference you went to your
hotel ?

Mr. Levixe. Yes.

Mr. Striplixg. Had you niailc notes of that conference?

Mr. Levixe. Yes, sir; that ni<>ht.

Mr. ]\*AXKix. You said Al<xer Hiss?

Mr. Lkvixk. Al<>'ei' Iliss and Donald Hiss.

Mr. Striplixg. Now, those two names

Mr. ]Mi'XDT. Before we leave the names, I take it there were other
names, but those are the two names which have ))revi()usly apjieared
in pi'int. and that is why you mention tho.se two names now?

^Ir. Levixe. Yes, sir.

Mr. MiTXDT. The other names you will jrive us in executive session?

jVTr. Levixe. Yes, sir.

Mr. Mt'Xot. Very <i(K)(1,

Mr. Striplix(;. What did Mi\ Berle say at the conclusion of this
conference? Did he say what action he intended to take, or what
he intended to do about it?

Mr. Lkmxe. Mr. Berle left us with the fe(>lino- that lie was <roin«x
to act in the matter, and that times bein«i Avhat they were, it would
have to be handled with the utmost delicacy and that we should not
pry toonnich, nor be too impatient as to the pi-occdure which the pi-opci-
Govermnent a<j:encies would take.

Mr. SriMPLTXG. Now, Mr. Levine. T am interested in one particular
thinL"". In youi' confei'eiu-es aiul couversiit ions with Whittaker (Cham-
bers, did he ever at any time tell you that he had any documentary
evidence to substantiate his alle«rations?

^fi-. I^EVixE. Yes, sii-.

Mr. Sthipeixc;. AVhen did he tell yoti that?

Mr. Levixe. Li the couise of the sununer of 19o9. when we discussed
the marketability of his articles, T asked him if he had any evidence,
and he told me that theiv was such evidence. He mentioned micro-
films and he also mentioned in a iicneral way (lociinientai'v evidence,
without <:oinj:- into detail.

Mr. SrHii'EiX(;. Well; did he say that that evidence was available?

Mr. Levixe. Yes, sir.

Mr. McDoAVEiJi. Difl he show them to you?

Mr. Levixe. No, no.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1409

Mr. Stripling. Did you ask him for the evidence ?

Mr. Levine. I understood when I was going to Washington in an
effort to bring him to President Eoosevelt, that that is exactly what
would transpire, that Mr. Chambers would leave certain evidence
which he wouldn't show to me before the President of the United
States, and something or another would happen, and the whole matter
would be clinched right there and then.

Mr. Stripling. But wdien you took him to see Mr. Berle, did he.
have with him any documentary evidence ?

Mr. Levine. No, sir ; he did not.

Mr. Stripling. Did you ask him about it?

Mr. Levine. No, sir ; not on that occasion he did not have the same'
feeling about Mr. Berle that he had about President Roosevelt. If I
remember correctly, he on several occasions had expressed his utmost
confidence in the President.

]Mr. Rankin. Was General Krivitsky with you that night ?

Mr. Levine. No, sir. Krivitsky did not know of that trip ; and if
he found out later, that was not through me.

Mr. Rankin. As I understand it, you were making an effort to get
a conference between General Krivitsky and President Roosevelt?

Mr. Levine. No, sir ; no, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Between Chambers and President Roosevelt?

Mr. Levine. BetMeen Chambers and the President. Chambers had
American material, American evidence. Krivitsky had European and
general material.

Mr, Stripling. Did he indicate to you where this evidence was?

Mr. Levine. He indicated, I think subsequently several months later
when I raised the question, that that evidence was being kept in a
safe place for trading purposes with the OGPU and Soviet Govern-
ment in the event he or his wife or his children met with any harm.
If his children, for instance, were kidnaped, the evidence would be
produced which could have them released. If he himself were to be
abducted, the party that had the evidence could then wield a club over
Stalin's NKVD or OGPU and use that cache of material in order to
effect the release of either Chambei's or of any member of his family.

]\ir. Hebert. Did he tell you that was why he was keeping this
cache ?

Mr. Levine. That is what I understood to be the reason for certain
material which he withheld.

Mr. ITebekt. Not what you understood, Mr. Levine. What did Mr.
Chambers tell you ?

Mr. Levine. That is what he told me in effect, and that is what I
understood, sir.

Mr. Hebert. Did ]Mr. Berle ask him if he had any documentary
evidence to present to substantiate the charges?

Mr. Levine. I do not believe that he did ; I do not recall, sir, that
that question was brought up.

Mr. Hebert. Did Mr. Chambers himself volunteer the information
to Mr. Berle that he did have documentary evidence?

Mr. Levine. Not in my presence. It may have happened for a
moment while I went to get a drink of water, or to the washroom, but
not in my presence, sir.

May I continue, or would you like to ask a question?

1410 COMMUNIST ESPIOIsAGE

Mr. Stripling. My principal interest, Mr. Chairman, is to determine
Avhetlier or not any responsible person was put on notice that evidence
was in existence.

Mr. Lemxe. Yes, sir.

Mr. Sthipling. Now, Mr. Nixon and Mr. INfcDowell have taken testi-
mon}' which bears iij)on this point, executive testimony. I would like
to determiuo whether or not that information before their subcom-
mittee is confirmed by any information you have as to where this evi-
dence was, and why it was not brought forward.

Do you know whether or not Mr. Chambers advised any agency of
the Government, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or any official
of the Government, that he had in his possession evidence regarding
this conspiracy?

Mr. Levixe. Mr. Chambers, to my knowledge, felt that having
taken the matter up with President Ivoosevelt's secretary, huviug pre-
sented the matter to the Assistant Secretary of State, he had gone far
enough in his perilous position and he knew that I was hammering
away, trying to find an o])ening either in the public mind, or in the
governmental minds for the Chambers story.

He knew — I believe he knew that when no action was forthcoming
from the conference with Mr. Berle, I went to former Ambassador
Bullitt — that was some 3 months later. I sketched Bullitt the whole
thing, and gave him some additional bits of infornuition that I knew
from Krivitsky, the whole story put before Bullitt. Bullitt also
was impressed, excited, and said he would go to President Roosevelt
with it.

I described all the information in my possession, that is, without
mentioning the name of Chambers to a high official in the State De-
partment who had served in Moscow, Mr. Loy Henderson, who is now
United States Ambassador in India.

JNIr. Stripling. How do you spell that?

ISIr Levine. Mr. Henderson, Boy, L-o-y, United States Ambassador
to India.

I kept in touch with Miss Adelaide Neall, N-e-a-1-1, senior editor of
the Saturday Evening Post at that time, and a close co-worker of
George Horace Mortimer for 30 years.

She was excited ; she wanted to know all the developments. I fig-
ured that this story would l)reiik and that the Saturday Evening Post
and I might have a scoop. Nothing happened.

A year later, in February or March, 1040, I spent 2 hours with Mr.
Walter Winchell in Miami. I gave him in rough the Avhole story,
without mentioning the name of Chambers. Mr. Winchell claimed
that he had entree to the White House, that he knew the President
and expressed a willingness and a desire to do something about it.
Nothing hai)pened.

After about a year and a half of futile efforts and spending quite a
bit of my own money, I decided that neither the people of the United
States nor the leaders in the Government at that time had sufficiently
familiarized themselves with Soviet espionage to make the Chambers
story credible; that it was utterly hopeless to proceed to bash one's
head against a stone wall and one had to go on and make a living, and
I abandoned my particular efforts.

Mr. Sthipling. Do you know. Mr. Levine, whether or not the Fed-
eral Bureau of Investigation subsequently interrogated Whittaker

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1411

Chambers after the conference with Mr. Berle, I mean, of your own
knowledge ?

Mr. Levine. No, sir.

Mr. Steipling. Mr. Chambers never told you that ?

Mr. Levine. No, sir.

Mr. Stripling. I am particularly interested in why he wanted to go
to the President of the United States. You say that he was a patriotic
American who wanted to get this matter before the President. Were
there any other considerations that you were aware of ?

Mr. Levine. Yes. I think the fear that he had that Hitler and the
Nazis might get, via Moscow, all the information that he knew was
being poured out from Washington to the Kremlin, preyed on his
mind as it preyed on my mind.

Mr. McDo^vELL. Did he say that, Mr. Levine?

Mr. Levine. He said it in different words on different occasions to
that effect, yes, sir.

As I said before, the appalling effect of the Stalin-Hitler Pact, you
know, shook him to his foundations, as it shook us all. He knew
enough about Soviet underground activities to know that if Stalin
could not supply grain he would supply American documents to
Hitler. If he couldn't furnish oil, he could at least furnish disposi-
tions of allied military forces to Hitler and buy his grace with Hitler
that way.

Not only Mr. Chambers knew it. General Krivitsky knew it, I
knew it.

Mr. Stripling. Now, Mr. Levine, did Chambers in your conferences
with him regarding his participation in the Communist apparatus,
did you gain any knowledge from him at that time that there were
other apparatuses in operation in Washington besides the one in which
he alleges to have been active ?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. Both Mr. Chambers and General Krivitsky
educated me to realize that a ring, or the rings of which Mr. Cham-
bers had knowledge, were but a small part of a labyrinthal system
which involved, to my subsequent knowledge, at least 10 separate
centers or rings of Soviet undeiground activity in the United States.

Mr.. Stripling. Now, just a minute. You say 10 rings?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. Now, Mr. Chairman, if he is going to name any of
these rings or any of the individuals mentioned in the rings, if Mr.
Hebert's request is to stand, I think that should be executive.

Mr. MuNDT. It should be executive in conformity with our com-
mittee procedure, but if you have at your command the names of the
leaders of any of these other rings, the committee certainly wants to
get that information in executive session.

Mr. Levine. Mr. Chairman, two or three of these can be mentioned,
because as a matter of fact, they are all a matter of public knowledge.
It is simply a question of getting to the bottom. Let's take one in-
stance, the counterfeiting of American money by the Soviet military
intelligence.

Mr. McDowell. The what ?

Mr. Levine. The counterfeiting of American money, $100 bills by
the Soviet military intelligence.

1412 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

It is a i"'ing wliich involved a Dr. Biutan who sei'vecl a IH-year sen-
tence in Lewisburg, Pa., and who never told his story. It is a ring
which involved Nick Dozenberg, an operative who testified before
this connnittee and whom Krivitsky had known in Austria.

Mr. STKirLiNG. Wasn't he also sentenced to prison. Nick Dozenberg?

INIr. Levine. I believe lie served some sentence. It is a ring which
involved, according to Krivitsky. the securing of American currency
pa])er fi-om an American mill which had to be trans])()i-ted to Moscow
in order to be able to print the $iUO bills there on genuine, authentic
American stock.

^Ir. IMuN'DT. Did you get your information about that ring from
Mr. Chambers, fi-om General Krivitsky, or from some other source?

Mr. Levine. ]\Iostly from Krivitsky, mostly from Krivitsky.

Mr. MuxDT. Do you know whether Mr. Chambers knew that?

]\fr. Levixe. I believe that Mr. Chambers knew of the case of Dr.
Burtan. It was a matter of public record, but it was a case, Mr.
Chairnum — I have to explain this in two or three sentences — that we
could talk about, but you couldn't talk to outsiders, because people
laughed at you, you know. I mean, we took it for gi'anted because
the facts were there, and, as a matter of fact, the $100 bills are dis-
played in the United States Treasury now. Anyone can go over and
look at them.

The whole inside story was known by Krivitsky; the story was
printed ])artly in the Saturday Evening Post, pictures and every-
thing else. The American people to this day never got to the bottom
of that particular ring, because the main figure in it chose, even when
a parole was offered to him, not to talk. He served his 15 years in
full, and the conspiracy remains unbroken. It is just one of any
number of other things, but I am using it as an illustration oidy.

Mv. McDowell. Is he still in this country ?

!^^r. Levine. Who?

^Tr. ^McDowell. This man who served the 15 years.

Mr. Levine. Oh, yes; he is an American, B-u-r-t-a-n. I am sure it
is in the committee records. I am sure General Krivitsky testified
about that.

]\rr. SiTiiPLiNO. That is right.

Mr. IMiTNOT. You may proceed.

Mr. Striplixo. Do you know whether or not Mr. Chambers ever
talked with anyone else in the State Department about this? You
menlioned ]\Ir. Henderson.

;Mr. Levine. Mr. Chambers did not speak to Loy Henderson, I did.
But I do know that subsequently — and I will ask the chairman that the
name be mentioned in executive session — Mr. Chambers was in touch
with certain officials of the State Department : yes, sir.

INIi'. SrRirLiNo. In which he set forth this information. l>ut you are
not aware of the details?

Mr. Levixe. I am not aware of the details, but I know a lot of time
was spent by him with certain officials of the State Department.

Mr. Striplixg. That is all I have. INIr. Chairman.

Mr. MuxDT. Mr. Hebert said that he feels the name of the man in
the State Department to whom Mr. Chambers talked could be made a
public record, because then we can corroborate that.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1413

Mr. Stripling. Just a moment. I have read the testimony given
by Mr. Chambers at the pretrial deposition in Bakimore, and in that
deposition he names the person. The person whom he gave that in-
formation to in some detail is involved or is responsible in some de-
gree — I am not sure how much — with tlie security of the State
Department. He is not a person who is publicly known, and I really
don't think that his name should go into the record.

Mr. MuNDT. All right. We will get it in executive session. That
is all right.

Mr. Levine. Mr. Chairman, may I add a few words to my answer
to the last question in connection with the 10 rings?

Mr. MuNDT. Go right ahead, sir.

Mr. Levine. I feel very strongly, sir, that unless this committee, the
Government, and the people of the United States fully appreciate the
service rendered by Whittaker Chambers and in this manner encourage
other members of the underground to come forward with their ma-
terial and their stories, we will never get the truth, we will never
break the conspiracy within the Government. For what you and I
have seen is but a small segment of an enormous underground empire.

I feel that there is altogether too much preoccupation and specula-
tion as to why Chambers did not produce the documents in time, and
that there is not enough concern about the persons who stole the
papers.

I feel that Mr. Chambers was never, or was not at the time an
employee of the Government and the people who stole the papers
were employees.

I think it should be the concern of the Government and of the
people and of the press to focus the spotlight upon the persons who
did the filching, upon the persons who protected them, upon the per-
sons who gave them jobs, upon the superiors and all others who made
this dreadful condition possible.

The question before the country is not why Mr. Chambers commit-
ted or did not commit an error of judgment, but what are we going
to do in order to ferret out in all its enormity, this horrible
monstrosity ?

I just want to say in conclusion, sir, that in Canada the Soviet
clerk Gousenko was rewarded by a grateful government for his serv-
ices to mankind. He was given honorary citizenship. He has gotten
protection from the Mounties, which he still enjoys. He got a pension.

Chambers has rendered a similar, if not a greater service. That
should be recognized by our press and by our authorities. They
should realize the state of terror under which an American lived after
his break with the Communist underground. He feared assassination
or abduction of his wife and children. He saved the papers as
insurance.

The American people, I hope through this committee, will under-
stand the fundamental issue involved in the Hiss-Chambers thing, and
that is, let us get the entire truth, for I believe — and I am expressing
an opinion now — that Mr. Chambers dealt with only 10 percent, and
I think that is a liberal estimate, of the papers that were being rifled in
at least 30 or 40 Government bureaus in Washington and were being
shipped in dozens of suitcases, specially constructed in Moscow, for
the transportation of spools of microfilm via Mexico, Canada, Europe,
and Asia, all converging upon Moscow. They have our entire insides.

1414 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. MuNiyr. Mr. Levine, before askiiiir questions. I w(nil(l like
to assure you, as chairman of the snbconiniittee handlino; tliis case,
in connection with your criticism of the altitudes of some peoples who
concentrate on the problem of why Chambers did not disclose this
documentary evidence fu-st, and to play down the discovery of the
people who stole the documents from the State De]iartment, that this
committee has no control over the activities or attitudes of other
blanches of government. But insofar as this committee is concerned,
we are fjoino: to continue to try to disclose the identity of the man or
people Avho did steal these documents in the Stale Department and
deliver them to Chambers and other people, and that we propose to
continue with this case until we have j^otten down to the bedrock
of the fundamentals.

Certainly you have placed your finfrer on one fundamental, and that
is to find out who it was in the State Department who stole the docu-
ments and delivered them to Chambers, and perha]is to other people.

Now, I would like to ask you a question or two. and T am sui-e other
members of the conunittee would, too. Have you finihihed your
statement ?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

]\Ir. ISIuxDT. I would like to ask you. first, a question which is more
or less standard in cases of this kind, which I hope you will feel free to
answer.

You said you were born in Russia and that brinjis it to mind to ask
whether you are now, or ever have been, a member of the Communist
Party?

INfr. Levine. No, sir.

Mr. MuxnT. T would like to ask next whether you ever knew Mr.
Whittaker Chambers by any other name.

]\rr. Levine. Only subsequent to my meetiufj him.

Mr. ISIuNDT. Either at the time you Icnew him, or subsequently, did
you ever hear him referred to by the name of "George Crosley"^

Mr. Levine. Xo, sir; never.

Mr. MuNDT. ]\fr. McDowell.

INfr. IVfcDowELL. Mr. Levine, there were four people at the table
at Mr. Berle's house?

Mr. Levtne. Yes. sir.

Mr. McDowEix. Will you identify those four?

Mr. Levine. Yes. ^Mr. and !Mrs. Berle, Mr. Chambers, and yours
trulv.

Mr. INfrDoA^Tiix. Thank you. Now, you have also said that the
apparatus that was described to you by Chambei's hei-e. vou feel there
were 10 operating rings or apparatus operating in "Washington. We
have discovered three. Some of the members know of one more, and
some others kjiow of two moi-e, making five. Do vou still feel there
are at least 10 operating or were operating in Washinirton?

Mr. Levtne. That may not be the most fitting description. T feel
that there are many more than 10. T know of at least 10 separate ef-
forts by separate groups at separate times which require ]ii-obing to
the bottom in order to expose at least 10, at least 10 rings. That is
the best wav T can answer it.

T think if the Canadian T?oval Commission found in little Canada
that there were 7 or 8 parallel centers or rings in existence, I should

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1415

not be surprised if in the United States Soviet secret service had 77
underground cells scattered from Seattle to New Orleans, doing in-
dustrial, political, governmental, scientific, and other espionage.

Mr. McDowell. Well, as a matter of fact, Mr. Levine, some of us
feel there are 132 in the United States.

Now, Mr. Levine, when the full committee meets, I intend to intro-
duce this resolution which I trust will be adopted by the committee.
With the permission of the chairman and the committee I will read
the resolution.

JNIr. JNlUNDT. Very well.

Mr. McDowell (reading) :

That tlie Committee on Un-American Activities has heard Mr. Whittaker
Chambers in a series of hearings since the early part of August 1948, and as
a direct result of his cooperation has been enabled to reveal to the Nation a
vast network of Communist espionage involving high officials of our Government
and the theft of documents vital to our national security. I am fully cognizant
of the fact that Mr. Chambers appeared voluntarily, risking his life, his health,
his position, and his public standing generally.

I am fully appreciative of the high patriotic motives which moved him to act.
The Committee on Un-American Activities wishes to express in behalf of the
American people its appreciation and gratitude for the service Mr. Chambers has
rendered. I am confident that his revelations will prove highly valuable and
instrumental in enabling the incoming Congress to enact legislation that will
effectively plug up the leaks which have been disclosed, and deal sternly with
all future violators of our national security.

At the same time, I hope that by I'evealing in all of its ugliness and sinister-
ness the real nature of the Communist conspiracy against the United States, Mr.
Chambers has set an example for thousands of other misguided individuals in
the Communist movement, and that they, too, will renounce their traitorous
conspiracy before it is too late, and before they are hopelessly enmeshed beyond
redemption in the Communist fold.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Kankin.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Levine, you spoke of General Krivitsky a while
ago.

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. I heard General Krivitsky's testimony, and shortly
after that testimony was given he was found dead in a hotel here in
Washington. You said that he was in the next room to you talking
to Mr. Chambers ; is that correct ?

Mr. Levine. After midnight, after sx3ending 2 or 3 hours with the
two of them, I left them alone.

Mr. Rankin. In what language were they talking ?

Mr. Levine. German.

Mr. Rankin. They were talking German?

JNIr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. The reason I ask you that, your statement puzzled me
a while ago, because when General Krivitsky appeared before the
Dies Committee he spoke in Russian and had to have an interpreter,
so your statement puzzled me in the beginning.

So they were talking in German ?

Mr. Levine. It is all very interesting, yes.

Mr. Rankin. You say that he told Adolph Berle, who at that time
was Under Secretary of State

Mr. Levine. Assistant Secretary of State.

Mr. Rankin. Assistant Secretary of State, about this espionage,
about this filching of the records, the stealing, in other words, of the

1416 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

vital documents from the State Department. Did he tell Mv. Berle
that he had some of those documents?

Ml-. Lkmne. No, sir. That question was not asked, and he did not
volunteer, in my hearinor, anythini; on that point.

Mr. Kaxkix. You said you told Walter Winchell all this?

Mr. T.EviNK. A year passed. Tlie Stalin-Hitler ]iact was on. Mr.
Winchell concenti'ated his attention at that time ujion the Communists,
and I felt — I was in Miami — that perhaps he would spring the story
and do somethir-fr about it.

^fr. Rankix. Did. you tell him what ISIi'. Chambers had told you?

Mr. Lkvixe. I pretty well, without mentionin<i; the name of Cham-
bers, without brinfring up the identity of the man, outlined to him
everythinfj I had discovei-ed fiom Chaml)ers and Krivitsky about
what was <roin<r on in Washington. He listened: he intimated that
he had been a guest at the White House, and that he might and would
do something.

Mr. Raxkix. AVell. did you know of the existence of these docu-
ments that yiv. Chambei's had in his possession? When did you learn
about them ?

Mr. Levixe. I learned about them in the sunnner of ';>!). I believe
that some time in 1040 I asked Mr. Chambei-s about them, and he inti-
mated to me. in such a way that I could not fpiite put my finger on it,
that he had i)erhaps destroyed them. He indicated that he did not
wish me to carry away the impression, when everything cooled off, that
he had the documents. And in fact, he told me the documents wei-e
available. He never told me that he had had them in his own pos-
session because he used them as a safety shield for himself.

INIr. Rankin. Did you ever report that to any other Government
official?

^fr. LE^^NE. T might have mentioned it to Loy Henderson whom I
saw frequently, and to one or two other loyal State Depaitment ollicials
whom T knew, but I don't think that they were in a position to do nnich
abou it. They ate their hearts out and waited.

Mr. Raxktx\ Of coui'se, Mr. Levine, what we are after is the facts,
regardless of what anyone may think or say about Whittaker Cham-
bers. The fact remains that he has turned over to us documents, more
than a hundred of them, I will say, that were stolen fi-om the State
Department back in those days. And I am convinced beyond a
reasonable doubt that those documents not only contributed to the
Hitler-Stalin pact, but they later contributed to the Japanese success
at Pearl Harbor.

What this committee is after, while the Department of Justice is
shadow-boxing between Alger Hiss and Chambers in New York,
instead of calling the grand jury together hei-e in Washington and
backing up this committee in its investigation — what we nvo after is to
get the facts. We want to know who is responsil)le for the theft of
these documents, and if you have any other information on that sub-
ject, I hope you will unbosom yourself and give it to us in full.

Mr. Levtxr. Thaidc you. T think the most im]>oi-tant i-elevant in-
formation is one which Congress has already tried to unravel, and that
is the so-called State Dcpartmeiit espionage case, the case of Amerasia,
which involves our policy in China, and which involved the theft of a
couple of hundred top stn-ret documents in wartime, and which ended
with the imprisonment of none of the six.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1417

I am referring, sir, to the six persons, Lt. Andrew Eoth, John
Stewart Service, Stillwell's adviser on our China policy, Phillip
Jaffee, manufacturer of Christmas cards, the possessor of a photostatic
apparatus, a very costly one for the reproduction of top secret State
Department, naval, military, and other papers and the three others
invoh'ed in that matter.

Mr. Rankin. I would like to have the other three names, if you
have them.

Mr. Levine. Yes. The names involved in addition to the three
mentioned were Miss jNIitchell — Phillip Jaffee I mentioned. There
was Kate Mitchell, I believe, John Stewart Service. Here are the
names :

Kate Mitchell, Marc Gayn, a journalist who used those documents
in his journalistic profession, more recently a correspondent in Tokyo.
Kate Mitchell is Kate L. Mitchell, coeditor of Amerasia.

To me that case is in some respects more shocking than the present
case, because it occurred in wartime, and because it involved a member
of the armed services.

Mr. Rankin. What time in the war did that happen?

Mr. Levine. That happened in 1945.

Mr. Rankin. "VMiat document are you referring to there?

Mr. LE^^NE. I am reading an article by one of the six, Emanuel Lar-
son, a minor figure, who describes the entire case from beginning to
end in Plain Talk for October 1946.

Mr. Rankin. Do you mean that those individuals had purloined
documents from the State Department, or from any other depart-
ment ?

Mr. Le\^ne. I mean that some of those individuals did exactly that,
and others were accomplices and made use of those documents.

Mr. Rankin. During the war?

Mr. LEv^NE. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. They were stealing the secret documents?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. These vital documents?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. From the departments of this Government and sur-
reptitiously passing them on to Moscow?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. And at that time Moscow entertained the Japanese
Ambassador, didn't it?

Mr. Levine. That's right.

Mr. MuNDT. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. Rankin. Yes, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. I recall that case from reading it in the newspapers,
but that happens to be a case which was handled by Attorney General
Tom Clark's Department of Justice, and not this committee. I wish
you could refresh us, if you know, what action the Department of
Justice took to prosecute the people guilty of that crime.

Mr. Levine. I believe, sir, that Mr. Clark was not the Attorney
General at the time.

Mr. MuNDT. Well, at least the Justice Department.

Mr. Le\t[ne. In any event, some of these people were let go scot
free. Some were fined, like Mr. Jaffee, $3,000, and one of them who
was photographed, and the photographs appeared in the press at the

1418 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

time, John Stewart Service, as passing the documents, was rewarded
by continuing him in the service of the United States Government at
some outlying jiost.

Mr. MuNDT. That wouUl indicate to me that if we are ever going
to get at the people who have stolen these documents and ^iven them
to Chambers, and get a conviction, the American public is goin<^ to
have to rely upon this committee, and not the Department of Jus-
tice, because on the basis of the record up to now, certainly there isn't
much to hope for from the standpoint of the public.

jMr. Rankin. Before I leave, let me say this to you

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

JMr. IIankin. General Krivitsky's statement before the Dies com-
mittee was, to my mind, the most impressive warning that this Gov-
ernment had received up to that time. And I remember one vocifer-
ous individual whose name I will not mention, who seems to take me
to task in a broadcast from Paris, used every influence he had to try
to discount General Krivitsky's testimony before the Dies committee.
Thank you.

Mr. ]\IuNDT. Mr. Nixon.

Mr. Rankin. And that individual is continually attacking this
connnittee. Now, the members of this committee have no ax to grind.
We get no extra compensation. We get all the smear and all the abuse
that can be heaped upon us, not only by the reds, but their fellow
travelers, their SA'mpathizers, and their hired stooges all over the
Nation. So what this committee is trying to do is to save this country.

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Nixon.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Levine.

INIr. Levine. Yes, sir.

JMr. Nixon. The purport of your testimony, as I understand it. is
that Mr. Chambers did make this information available to high-rank-
ing (lovernment authorities in 1939.

JMr. Levine. Yes, sir.

IMr. Nixon. In your opinion at that time, did Mr. Chambers give
sufiicient information that those high-ranking authorities, had they
acted, could have stoj^ped the conspiracy at that time?

Mr. Levine. Absolutely.

IMr. Nixon. And their failure to act, in other words, was respon-
sible for the conspiracy continuing, if it did continue after that time?

Mr. Levine. Yes; with this additional observation, that their failure
to act may have been due to short-sightedness, or blindness.

Mr. Nixon. JMr. Levine, I am not concei-ned about placing the
blame upon any high-ranking ofiicials who failed to act as of a certain
time. We are faced in tliis hearing with a very serious fact, as brought
out particularly by the testimony in open and executive sessions yes-
terday and today, that information of the most confidential character
has gone to the agents of a foreign power, which at the ]iresent time
is unfriendly to the United States, and which in times past has adojjted
attitudes and policies which are unfriendly to the United States.

What this committee has to do — and this is beyond and apart from
the function of the grand jury, which can only convict or indict for a
crime — this committee has the responsibility of pointing out to the
people, the American people, wherein our elected and appointed offi-

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1419

cials have failed to take action which they could have taken which
would have protected the national security.

Now, in that connection I understand, then, that there were at least
three hiijh-ranking officials to whom you sent this information, either
by Mr. Chambers or by yourself, at least in some form it was conveyed ?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Nixon. And to your knowledge no action of a substantial char-
acter was taken as a result of those conversations ?

Mr. Levine. That is absolutely correct.

Mr. Nixon, you raised a point which 1 think, if you will permit me,
or if the chairman will permit me, I would like to supplement, when
you spoke of our failure to act.

At that very time I had learned from Krivitsky of the existence of
two top Soviet spys in the British cabinet, and in the Committee of
Imperial Defense. One of those two I knew by name.

I went to Ambassador Lothian, after a proper introduction. Tlie
information was checked and found to be correct, although he was
somewhat skeptical when I jfirst called upon him; 2 weeks later I was
called from Connecticut to come to Washington. They made arrange-
ments to meet Krivitsky through his attorney. They made arrange-
ments, the British, to take him to Canada and from there to Great
Britain, and I think before General Krivitsky arrived in Great Britain
tlie spy in the British cabinet, whose name I gave to Lothian at that
time — his name was King — he was found to be there. He was spotted,
and he was executed in the Tower of London.

That is what the British Government did when information was
conveyed to it by me, acting exactly in the same capacity in which I
acted w^ith reference to Krivitsky and Chambers.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Chairman, at that point I want to point out a very
significant fact. Mr. Chambers testified before the Committee on
Un-American Activities for the first time on August 3d of this year.
Most of the members presently sitting were present at the time of that
hearing and at that time, if you will read the testimony, you will find
that Mr. Chambers did not present to the Committee on Un-American
Activities as much in the way of factual information as he had previ-
ously presented to Mr. Berle, and as he had previously presented to
Government agencies, who, over a period of years, have interviewed
him a number of times preceding his appearance before the committee.

Nevertheless, as a result of Mr. Chambers' appearance before the
committee at that time, rather than simply giving that information — •
and I use a term which is better to describe it, I think, than what
we might term classical language — rather than giving that informa-
tion the brush-off, or kiss-off, this committee, in spite of public criti-
cism, in spite of criticism from tlie press, proceeded to dig into a very
nasty situation. And only as a result of this committee's following
up on that situation, and but for this committee's following up that
situation, for the first time documentary evidence in great quantities
has been made available, which proves beyond doubt the existence of
a Communist conspiracy in this country which was extremely effective
in obtaining the most confidential documents for the Russian
Government.

Now, I make that statement advisedly. I am not overexaggerating
the facts. All that you have to do is to read the testimony or to

1420 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

romoiiibor the tostimonv that has been given by State Department
ollicials themselves.

I think that all of us are aware, tuid certainly the members of
this committee are aware, and I am conlident the mem])ers of the
press are aware, that the Dej)artment of Justice has indicn((Ml that
they want this connnittee to drop its investigation, and I use that
term advisedly, because in spite of our repeated attempts, the Depart-
ment of Justice — in spite of our repeated requests — has made it clear
that they do not want this connnitt(M> to li(\'ir any witnesses who are
ijivolved in this investigation.

^Ir. Chairman, I for one, as :i iiiciubrr of this connnittee, am stat-
ing now ])ublicly that I do not intend to entrust to the De|)artment
of Justice or to the present administration, which foi- 10 years has
had these facts and done nothing about it, the resi)onsibility which
is ours, as well as theirs, of putting the spotlight on these activities,
Avhcther or not a technical crime has been conunitted.

Now. in that connection T wish to make one othei" observation. The
De]iartment of Justice has in(licate<l, as they sliould — and I may
disagree with some of mv colleagues on this point — has indicated
an interest in indicting ^Nfr. Chambers for technical violations of
law, ])articularly technical perjui-y, which he may be guilty of by
reason of the fact that he testified befoi'e this connnittee in one con-
nection in one way. nnd a later connection in another way. The
Depai-tment of Justice has that resi)onsil)ility.

But on the othei' hand. I think that it is high time foi- us to I'ecog-
nize. as Mr. Levine has put it very well here this evening, that ^fr.
Chambers' technical violations of th(> law. his reasons for failinc: to
turn over this infoi'uiation in documentary form to the Govennnent,
or to this committee jn-ior to this time ; where the in foi-mation has l)een
])rior to this time, aiul the other collatei'al issues which have been
raised, and T think mistakenly in some cases by reason of poor judg-
ment by some of the outstanding editorial writers in the coimtry, that
all of those reasons are beside the ]>oint. insofar as the duty and
responsibility of this connnittee and the Department of Justice is
concerned.

Because in that connection we must remember this one fact: This
connnittee and the Dejiartment of ,Iustice hav(> the pi-imarv responsi-
bility to be concerned over the national security. Mi-. Chambers has
confessed. Afr. Chambers is in the o])en. ^Fr. Chambers is no longer
a danger to the national security, l)ut the men who fnr-nished this
information to Mr. Chambers have not been brought to justice.

They may not even be guilty of technical crimes due to tlie la]ise
of the statute of limitati(ms, in which case the grand jury lia> no ii<.rht
whatever to hear tlieir case, and in that case this coininittee has a solemn
resj)onsil)ility, despite the elTorts of the administration to silence this
committee and keep the facts from the people — and T say that, not
becau.se of any political iinj)lications, b?cause this is bigger than
jiolitics — this committee has the res))onsibilitv to contiinie its investi-
gation and to call every witness before it until we find who was re-
sponsible for l)ringing this information to Mr. Chambers, and to see
wliether or not those people are still engaged in that kind of activity.

ATr. Kaxktx. Afr. Nixon, regardless of the statute of limitations, the
American bo^'s who were killed, who lost their lives as a result of this

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1421

treason are still dead, and America is still paying the penalty. It is a
pity we haven't had the same action taken here that was taken by the
British Government. We might not have had a Pearl Harbor.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Rankin, I appreciate that remark, and I want to say
this at this time

Mr. Kankin. I was going to say, regardless of what you think of
Whittaker Chambers, the fact remains that we have these documents
that were stolen, these secret, vital documents that were stolen out of
the State Department at that time.

]\Ir. Nixon. Mr. Rankin, at this point, the point I wish to make clear
is this: I realize that what I have just said will be interpreted in some
quarters as politics, speech making, and it will have to be taken for
what it is. But those are the cold, hard facts. That is why I am up
here, and that is why I think the rest of the members of this committee
are uj) here meeting night and day. I can assure you that during the
times M'e are not meeting, w-e are working most of the night as well.

Now, in order to settle a couple of these collateral issues, so that
those who have been so concerned with them that they have failed
to keep their eyes on the ball as to who furnished this information and
w^hether they are still at large furnishing this information, we have
had some comments u])on two of those collateral issues tonight from a
second-hand source, Mr. Levine.

One of the collateral issues which seems to have caught the imagina-
tion of the press and the public, and rightfully so, is of course the
matter of why didn't Mr. Chambers turn over this information ? I say
it is a collateral issue because the major issue is that now he has
turned it over, and that as a result of that we have a responsibility
to see who turned it over to him.

We have had second-hand information on that. We have had
guessing in the press, some of it wrong, some of it right. I think
that it is time tonight to settle tliat issue once and for all by the best
source of all, and that is Mr. Chambers.

Mr. Chambers testified in New York City on Monday night. He
was asked the specific question as to why he refused to turn over this
information prior to this time, and I will say that he was cross-
examined most closely by Mr. McDowell, Mr. Stripling, and myself,
who were there along with other staff members at that time, on that
very point.

And with the permission of the committee, I should like to read
Mr. Chambers' statement as to why he did not turn over that informa-
tion, and for the benefit of the members of the committee let me say
this : There are no new names in this testimony. It is only the version
of the man himself when he was pressed on that point, and I think
since there has been so much information on it, it should go into the
record at this point.

Mr. Chairman, may I have that permission ?

Mr. Hebert. Are there any names ?

Mr. Nixon. There are no names, Mr. Hebert, I assure you.

Mr. Stripling. Just a moment. There is one name mentioned.

Mr. Nixon. I will not use the name that is mentioned.

Mr. ISIuNDT. You may read it.

1422 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Njxon. I am reading from Mr. Chambers' testimony:

Every ex-Commnnist is faced at the moment of liis break with the Coninuinist
Party by tlie question. "Shall I be an iiiformerV" I faeed tliis question very
early, liut I was reluetant to inform. In VSM), as is well known, I felt com-
pelled, by the war siHiation in Euroix! to a<t upon the knowledt;e I had, and I
then went to Adoljih Herle, then Assistant Secretary of Strife. I thought at that
time an investij-'ation would be puslud on the basis of the facts which I had
told him, now that there were Connnuuisis in the Government and in the State
Department.

1 reiurned to New York after my conversation with Berle, believing that a
full investigation would be pushed, that I would give all jjossible help to that
investigation, and that the espionage angle would certainly be developed. I
heard nothing more of the matter for at least 2 years.

Alter tliat lapse of time another very important factor in an ox-Comniunist
niiiid bi'gaii to have full play, and I sought in my testimony to do two tilings:
My one purpose was to destroy the Conununist conspiracy or to stop its activities.
My (ither purpose was to do no more injury than necessary to the human elements
involved.

Most of the men in the Communist underground apparatus were men of high
type, .some of tiiem widely recognized for intelligence and ability. They had
been my friends. I had been in their homes and knew their wives and cliildreii
whose faces I could remember. Very important to an ex-Conuuunist is the
question of other (^onununists breaking with the Communist Party. Breaking
with the Comnnniist I'arty is not an easy matter. It takes strength of purjiose,
and it takes, above all, time for reversing the pattern of a lifetime and the con-
sequences may be dire. Time is the essence of such a break, and I desired to
give these people an opportunity to make their own break, damaged as little as
possible by me.

Mr. Stripling then asked a question:

Have you had access to, or have you received any documents from the State
Department since 1938?

Mr. Chambkhs. No.

Mr. SniiPLiNc;. Have you talked with anyone who had State Department
documents in his possession that you were aware of since 1938?

Mr. CiiAMBEES No one, except the man —

and I delete the name —

who had secreted the documents I gave him.

Mr. R.\NKrx. "Was that testimony under oath?

Mr. MuNDT. That is under oath ; yes, sir.

INIr. Nixon. I say in this connection, Mr. Chairman, that there are, of
course, additional sections of testimony on that point. It is one of
the reasons why Mr. Chambers must be brought before the conunittee
and be allowed to elaborate on that very important issue, although it
is a collateral issue, as I have indicated. But I tliiidv a piirpost' has
been served by bringing before the committee at this time (1) the
reason that Mr. Chambers gave to the committee for failing to turn
over the information; and (2) the fact that this information had been
secreted since 1938, and had not been divulged since that time to any
foreign power.

I also wish to comment upon that particular bit of testimony ])y
Mr. Chambers and upon IVIr. Levine's testimony to this effect: The
indication is at the present time that Mr. Chambers will certainly be
indicted for perjury. The indications are also that ^Ir. Chambers
will be indicted for ix'ijurv ])robably before any of the other people
involved in this particular conspiracy are indicted.

I wish to point out to the Department of Justice to proceed along
that line, and I am making public this statement tonight, in the event
this occurs, that they will thereby have probably destroyed their

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1423

only opportunity to obtain an indictment of the other individuals in-
volved, because the star witness against the other individuals will have
been an indicted and convicted perjurer.

I should also like to state in that connection that as Mr. Levine so
well pointed out tonight, the only way, because of the strict organiza-
tion of the Communist conspiracy in this country and other countries,
that you can bring any Communist conspiracy to light, is through the
testiinony of a confessed Communist, and the way to give the greatest
encouragement to the Communist conspiracy in this country is to stop
this particular investigation by simply indicting the man who turned
over the information to the committee and made it available to the
country. I hold no brief for Mr. Chambers. I think Mr. Chambers
should have told the entire story to the committee. I wish that he
had done so. But those facts are gone.

We are faced with the hard fact now that is far more important
than that, that the damage has been done, that the documents are here,
that they were turned over, and that the people who turned them over
are still at large.

Mr. Chairman, I am sorry to have taken the time of the committee.

Mr. Levine. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Levine.

Mr. Levine. Allow me to say a few words.

As a former foreign correspondoiit and a student of foreign affairs,
I think there is one aspect of the matter which should be stressed in
connection with the statement of Representative Nixon, namely, the
indictment of Chambers in the cold war being waged today will negate
and nullify most of the money and propaganda which the Voice of
America is spending abroad in defense of this country.

Outside of the United States, the proposed shocking indictment of
Mr. Chambers will mean that we punish the people who helj) us in
the fight against communism and we reward the people who are serv-
ing as Stalin's agents in our midst today.

I can imagine nothing more calamitous as a pre-Pearl Harbor
move for the third world war, than this particular strategy in some-
body's immature mind, if that be the case.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Hebert.

Mr. Hebert. Mr. Levine, I just have a few clarifying questions I
would like to ask, just to make the record clear. I understood you to
say that Mr. Chambers was in touch with approximately 10 percent
of the Communist apparatus, and that that was a liberal estimate. I
think you meant to say a conservative estimate ?

Mr. Levine. A conservative estimate ; I am sorry.

Mr. Hebert. I didn't want the record to stand that you said a
liberal estimate.

Now, there is one other matter which I think should be directed to
the attention of the committee that I think is most important, and
which seems to have escaped or gotten lost in the general confusion,
and that is, as I understand it, these documents we are discussing, the
documents which the committee has the physical possession of. Those
documents were never turned over to the enemy. I think I am correct
on that.

Mr. Rankin. We don't know.

80408 — 48— pt. 2 4

1424 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr, Hkhert. I know, but wc know they were microtilnied. In other
words, these are the documents after Chainl)ers decided to break with
the Coninuniists. Now, he was a Connnunist functionary for some 2
years, accordiuijf to his own admission, in Washinj^ton, so the direction
of the committee at tliis time shouhl be (hawn to tlie fact that we are
in possession of some two or tliree hundred documents or papers which
are merely the tag end that never reached Russian hands.

]\Ii. MiiXDT. A\'e h<)])e.

]\Ir. IIkuekt. We iiope, but k'l us <j:ive them a break and the beneht of
the doubt and say that these two or thi-ee luiiulred documents never
reached tlie hands of the Russians. Yet, can we conceive how many
more iiun(beds. or ])ossibly t]u)usands of documents reached the Rus-
sians through the hands of Cluimbers as a Conununist functionary?
We to this day don't know who the individual or individuals were in
the Dejjartment of State wlio had access to those files, who gave them
to Cliambei's who was merely (he messenger boy carrying them from
the traitor in the State Department to tlie enemy in the Krcndin in
Russia.

I think that is one thing we have to keep in our minds, and just
wonder how ex]iansive an(l how far-fetched this whole ])ro]iosition is,
and direct attention also to the fact that tiiis conunittee is not the De-
partment of Justice, nor a detective agency. AVe are not charged with
the responsibility of apprehending tjie criminal. We are charged with
the res]K)nsibility of bi'inging to the attention of the proper authorities
the fact that a crime has been conunilted. Then it becomes incumbent
upon and the responsibility of the proper agency of the Government
to apprehend that criminal when they know a crime has been com-
mitted and to ]~)rosecute liim to the fullest extent of the law.

In that connection, let me say this: The conunittee needs no defense
of itself. The committee's work stands for itself, Mr. Chairman. The
fact, and the cold fact still remains that if it had not been for the ac-
tivity of tliis committee with its errors of omission and commission
which wc all commit — but nevei- an error of the heart or eri'or of intent
or purpose — if it had not been for the activities of this committee over
a ])eriod of yeai's, this country Avould not have been alerted to the
danger of communism, nor would it liave realized the infdtration of
comnnniism in this (lovej'ument.

Finally, the fact still remains that if the conuuittcc had not given
attention to Mr. Chambei's and if Mr. Chambers had not appeare(l
before this conunittee and given the limited or the cotiservat ive amount
of testimony which he oiiginally gave, had not named one Alger Hiss,
Hiss would not have sued Chambers for libel, and if Hiss had not
sued Chambers for lib(<l. the documentary evidence would not be before
the public today.

It all tui'ns back to the fact that this committee insistcMJ u|)on and
gave attention to the fact, and now it is in the hands of the pr<)i)er
agents of this Goveinment to pi-osecute to the fullest extent of (lie law,
or else acknowledge their guilt and their dereliction.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Hebert, may I coriect you on one thing? W^e did
not get the origimils of these documents. The originals j)i<)l)abiy
went into the hands of the Russian agents. We merely got the micro-
film of them that were taken at the time.

Ml-. Hkmkkt. Oh, Mr. Chairman, tlie originals are back, we hope.
They are cliecking tlie State Department files now to ascertain that.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1425

Mr. Rankin. But the files they took out, we haven't even got the
copies. We got tlie microfihn. But the copies that were stolen were
turned over to Russian agents.

Mr. Hebert. But the mechanics of this, which I understand are
well known already, that this traitor or traitors in the Department
of State — how many there are, or whichever level they are — took from
the files of the State Department these important documents

Mr. Rankin. And had them copied.

Mr. Hebert. Brought them to Chambers, who in turn had a Com-
munist photographer photograph or microfilm these documents. Then
the microfilm was given to the Russian agent to be dispatched to the
Kremlin, and the documents themselves w^ere returned to the State
-Department files.

Mr. Rankin. That is not my understanding. My understanding is
that they made these copies and turned the copies over to Mr. Cham-
bers. Mr. Chambers had those copies microfilmed and the copies them-
selves were turned over to somebody else.

Mr. MuNDT. I will ask the chief investigator to correct me if I am
wrong, but I think Mr. Hebert has described the mechanics of this
operation exactly correct. The one thing that we do not know, of
course, is whether the Communist photographer made an extra print
to send with somebody direct.

Mr. Hebert. We don't know that.

Mr. MuNDT. We do not know that, but we know that the original
documents were returned by this traitor, this smuggler, this thief,
back to the State Department the next morning as he came back for a
new batch of supplies. I think Mr. Hebert has described the device
correctly.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chambers so testified on Monday
evening.

Mr. Stripling. Yes. The whole operation, Mr. Chairman, is a mat-
ter of record before the committee. All the details of how these docu-
ments were obtained, and according to the testimony of Mr. Chambers
who he obtained them from, is a matter of record before the commit-
tee. The confirmation of certain material facts is what we are trying
to determine now.

Mr. Hebert. And don't let us lose sight of the fact, and again to
reiterate, that the main culprit, the main offender against the Ameri-
can people is not the messenger boy Chambers, but the trigger man
in tlie State Department.

]Mr. McDowell. Mr. Hebert, may I tell you that it was testified
under oath last Monday night that the details of how these things were
removed from the Department of State, where they were taken to,
in what fashion they were taken, liow they were photographed, how
they got back the next day, is all in the record.

Mr. MuNDT. And that is in entire conformity with what Mr. Hebert
just said?

Mr. McDowell. Exactly so.

Mr. Stripling. The possibilities which Mr. Rankin raised, how-,
ever, are still open, Mr. Mundt.

Mr. Mundt. The State Department is now checking that.

Mr. Stripling. Some were microfilmed and sent as microfilm. Some
were copied and sent as copies, but it is still possible that extra copies
were made, or that extra copies or prints of microfilm were made.

]426 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. MuNDT. That is correct.

Mr. Kankin. And it was testified that the man who was taking
these docmnents from the files liad his wife to copy them, and he took
tlie ori<rinals back and turned tlie copies over to Mr. Chambers. Mr.
Chambers had those copies microfihned, but the copies have never
been turned over to tliis committee.

In my opinion they were turned over to the Russian agents.

Mr. MuxDT. Mr. Hebert, any more questions?

Mr. McDowell. It shoukl be remembered, Mr. Chairman, that Miss
Bentley testified on various occasions that she sometimes took her
material to New York in her lady's bag, and sometimes in her shopping
bag, and sometimes it was quite a bundle. So all sorts of material
went out.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Vail is next, but I want to add one thought ta
what Mr. Ilebert has pointed out, that this committee has one addi-
tional function which I am sure he would have expressed, except that
he was dealing with another point. In addition to the functions which
we have, we also have the responsibility of determininp; what new
legislation is necessary to make these espionage rings stop functioning,
if they are still functioning, or to prevent them from starting all over
again. This connnittee expects to recounnend legislation to that end.

Mr. Vail.

Mr. Vail. In your opinion, I\Ir. Levine, are there other potential
informers whose services might at some future date become available
to this committee, or some other governmental agency?

Mr. Levine. Yes. In my opinion, out of the 80,000 members, known
and secret of the Communist Party of the United States, about 1
percent are operators for the Soviet secret service. That is roughly
about 800. I should say that it would take an almost superhuman
and concentrated effort to unearth most of the cells and to disclose
most of the operations.

Mr. Vail. Do you believe that that element is watching the opera-
tion of the grand jury investigation closely in New York at this
time?

Mr. Levine. Not only in New York — right here in Washington,
too.

Mr. Rankin. What was that question, Mr. Vail?

Mr. Vail. I inquired as to whether or not that element is watching
carefully the progress of the grand jury investigation in New York.

Mr. ^iuxDT. And you heard the answer?

Mr, Rankin. Yes.

Mr. MuNDT. Go ahead, sir.

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr. Vail. In the event of the indictment, subsequent conviction
and imprisomnent of Chambers, what effect, in your (>]nnion will that
have on the possibility of obtaining information from such sources,
at any future date?

Mr. Levine. I think it will make espionage safe. It Avill be a
postwar bonus to Stalin which he never expected, and which he will
greatly appreciate. I think it will speed up the process of jiutrefying
this countiy from within, which Stalin is t icnicndously interested in.

If you will recall, sir. he told General Krivitsky in li>.")T in a mid-
night session in the Kremlin, describing France, with a shrug of the
shoulders, "Well, France, a putrid corpse." And he was right, because

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1427

lie knew how manj^ people he had within the government and within
industry and the national organism of France, better even than Krivit-
sky did.

Well, when a despot like Stalin can command such people as we have
discovered, good, native Americans of the best families — and Cana-
dians, go back to the record of the Canadian Royal Commission — of
the best education, and if he can command them not by the dozen,
and not by the score, but by the hundreds in key positions, maybe
tomorrow, if we proceed with such indictments he will say of America,
"Well, just another putrid corpse ready to fall at the first blow of the
war."

. Mr. Vail. At this time I would like to introduce into the record
of this hearing a transcript of the testimony in the hearing held in
New York last Monday night.

A question by Mr. Stripling to Mr. Chambers [reading] :

When did you leave these documents with Levine?
Mr. Chambers.

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Vail, to make the record straight, that is not
this Mr. Levine that is reing referred to.

Mr. McDowell. It was Mr. Nathan Levine.
Mr. Vail (reading) :

As I have already said, I left the documents with him some time in 1938, pre-
sumably shortly after I broke with the Communist Party.

Mr. Stripling. What did you tell him about them?

Mr. Chambers. I asked him to hide them for me and not to tell anyone where
I hid them, but if anything should happen to me, meaning, if I should be killed,
to turn them over to my wife, or to make them public in some way.

That is all.

Mr. MuNDT. Is that all, Mr. Vail?

Mr. Vail. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stripling. I do not have the record before me, but I believe
the name is Levin, L-e-v-i-n.

Mr. Vail. In the record it is L-e-v-i-n-e.

Mr. MuNDT. That can be checked and corrected.

Mr. Stripling. We have the full name.

Mr. INIcDowELL. Well, there is no connection between the two men;
that has been thoroughly established.

Mr. MuNDT. Any similarity between the names is just a coincidence.

Mr. McDowell. It happened in Brooklyn.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Levine, before you conclude, I would like to an-
nounce that we would like to meet with you briefly in the committee
room in executive session. You have been very helpful and very
stimulating.

One thing that strikes me, as we conclude this hearing, is the fact
that the Department of Justice has had access to this information
for 10 years, as has been brought out by committee member after com-
mittee member. Not until this committee of Congress disclosed the
documentary evidence has any activity been taken in the direction of
ascertaining and punishing the evildoers.

I would like to add as one who has listened somewhat monotonously
to the repetition of a phrase rather recently, that this is a "do-nothing"
Congress, that from the standpoint of punishing and disclosing espio-
nage in Government, we certainly have had a "do-nothing" admin-
istration.

1428 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

We will stand adjounied-

Mr. Kaxkix. Wait just a niimitc, I want to say this, now.

Koirardk'ss of what tlu'v do to Cluuuheis, the fact still remains that
we have tliese stolen documents, and all the prosecution of Chambers
can't chanfje that fact.

Mr. MuNDT. We will be in ex(>cutive session innned'iately in the
connnittee room.

(\\'hereupon, at 10 p. m., the committee adjourned to reconvene in
executive session.)

HEAKINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE IN
THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART TWO

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1948

United States House of Representatives,

Special Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,

Washington^ D. C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 11 : ?>() a. m., in the caucus
room, Old House Office Building, Hon. Karl E. Mundt (acting chair-
man) presiding.

Committee members present: Representatives Karl E. Mundt (pre-
siding), John McDowell, Richard M. Nixon, Ricliard B. Vail, John
E. Rankin, and F. Edward Hebert.

Staff members present : Louis J. Russell, William A. Wheeler, and
Courtney Owens, investigators; Benjamin Mandel, director of re-
search ; and A. S. Poore, editor.

Mr. Mundt. The committee will come to order.

The Chair would like to say that the committee has been in execu-
tive session. The roll has been called, and 100 percent of the mem-
bership of the subcommittee is present. We are in the process of
interrogating the witness on the stand who has been sworn, and I will
ask Mr. Russell to start with the interrogation of the witness afresh.

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, will you swear the witness again, since
this is an open session ?

Mr. Mundt. Stand and be sworn, Mr. Wadleigh.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give is the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Wadleigh. I do.

Mr. Mundt. You may be seated,

TESTIMONY OF HENRY J. WADLEIGH

Mr, Russell. Mr. Wadleigh, will you state your full name?

Mr. Wadleigh. Henry Julian^ Wadleigh,

Mr. Russell. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Wadleigh ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Greenfield, Mass., February 4, 1904.

Mr. Russell. What is your present address ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Route 3, Vienna, Va.

Mr. Russell. Are you employed at the present time ?

Mr. Wadleigh. No.

Mr. Russell. Will you furnish the committee in chronological order,
insofar as possible, a record of your past employment, both with the
Federal Government and other agencies ?

1429

1430 COM]MUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Wadleigh. In 1930 1 was employed by the Federal Farm Board.
In ll)o2 I was transferred to the Dej^artment of A<2;riculture. In
]0-'>() I was transferred to the State Department. In 1943 I was trans-
ferred to FEA. In 1944 I was transfeired to the Department of Agri-
cidture. In 194(5 I resi^nied from the Department of Agriculture and
was appointed to a position in UNRKA.

After the termination of the work in UNRRA, I was employed for
a time by the Italian Govermnent as an economist..

Mr. RussEUL. "Would yon furnish the committee with a resume of
your educational background?

Mr. Wadleigh. I was educated mainly in Europe. I went to the
College of Oxford ; I went to the London School of Economics and
on returning to the ITnited States, I had 1 years graduate work in
the University of Chicago.

Mr. Russell. While you were employed by the State Department,
in what divisions were you an economist?

Mr. AVadlkigit. I was in the Division of Trade Agreements from
193G, until the war in Europe broke out. Then I was employed in
the office of one of the special assistants to the Secretary of State.
In 1943, 1 was sent abroad on a State Department mission to Italy.

Mr. Russell. Who were your innnediate superiors while you were
employed in the State Department ?

]Mr. Wadleigh. Henry (xrady in the Trade Agreements Division,
then Harry Hawkins, then Leo Pasvolsky, special assistant to the
Secretary of State, and in Italy, Henry Grady..

I\Ir. Russell. Who were the Under Secretaries or Assistant Secre-
taries of the Department of State in the various divisions in which
you were employed ?

]Mr. Wadleigh. Mr. Say re was Assistant Secretary in charge of
the Trade Agreements Division when I first was employed there. Mr.
Acheson later took Mr. Sayre's place.

When I worked with Mr. Pasvolsky there was no Assistant Secre-
tary in charge of the oflice in which I worked.

Mr. Russell. While 3'ou were employed by the United States Gov-
ernment, did you ever become acquainted with one Whittaker Cham- •
bers?

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate or degrade me.

Mr. Russell. Have you read the newspapers stories regarding cer-
tain testimony which Whittaker Chambers gave before this committee
at various times?

Mr. Wadleigh. I read the newspapers and I naturally have seen
some of those stories.

Mr. RussEivL. As a result of the testimony which Whittaker Cham-
bers gave before this connnittee, and the subsecjuent printing in the
newspapers, did you acquire any animosity against Air. Chambers?

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might inrriminate me,

]\Ir. Ri'ssELL. Mr. Wadleigh, I show you a photograph and ask you
if you can identify the likeness which appears thereon.

5lr. W.UiLKiGH. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
it might incriminate me.

Mr. Ri ssELL. Mr. Chairman, I would like for the record to show
that this is a photograph of Whittaker Chambers.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1431

Mr. Wadleigli, while you were employed by the Department of
State, or by the United States Government, did you become acquainted
with one Alger Hiss ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
it might incriminate me — that the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Russell. Mr. Wadleigh, while you were employed by the De-
partment of State, did you have access to restricted information?

Mr. Wadleigh. Some kinds only,

Mr. MuNDT. Did you say "some kinds" or "sometimes"?

Mr. Wadleigh. Some kinds. There are many different kinds of
restricted information.

Mr. Russell. Mr. Wadleigh, I show you a document which has
been identified by the State Department as being a restricted docu-
ment, or a top-secret document, which is dated January 8, 1938, and
which is signed by Harry C. Hawkins, and ask you if you have ever
seen this document.

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Russell. The INIr. Hawkins who signed that document was one
of your superiors in the State Department, was he not?

Mr. Wadleigh. That is a matter of public record.

Mv. Russell. Mr. Wadleigh, while you were employed by the De-
partment of State, did you ever furnish restricted documents or re-
stricted confidential information to any individual, either within the
State Department or who was not employed by the State Depart-
ment ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Russell. While you were employed by the State Department,
did any individual ever identify himself to you as a Soviet agent,
or an agent of the Soviet Government?

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Russell. Did you ever turn over to any unauthorized person
while you were employed by the State Department any restricted
information whatsoever ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. MuNDT. The Chair would like to ask the witness a question at
that point.

Do you realize, Mr. Wadleigh, that you are in a position to answer
the questions asked you in the negative, that your answer might tend
to refute the charges made against you ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I beg your pardon, I didn't understand that ques-
tion.

Mr. MuNDT. Do you realize that you are in a position to answer
under oath in the negative the questions asked you, that your reply
might tend to refute the charges made against you, instead of to
incriminate you ?

Mr. Wadleigh. It might.

Mr. MuNDT. You realize that ?

Very well, proceed, Mr. Russell.

1432 C0M]vnjNiST espionage

Mr. Russell. Wliile you were employed by the State Department,
dill you ever tuin over any documents of a restricted nature to Whit-
taker Chambers ?

Mr. Wadi-IvIcii. I refuse to answer (hat question ou the ground that
the answer niiglit incriminate me.

Mr. KussELL. While you were employed by the State Department,
did you ever turn over any documents to Al<::er Hiss, eitlier directly
or indii-ectly, whether personally, or through any other person?

Mr. WAUi.KKiiT. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. EussKij.. Have you ever known an individual v.ho used (he
name "Carl"' and no other name?

Mr. AVadliucii. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Russell. Do you know (Jeorge Crosley, or auyone by that name.

Mr. Wadi-eioii. I refuse to answer that (question on the ground
that the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Raxkix. The answer could not incriminate you unless you are
guilty of a crime, could it, Mr. AVadleigh ?

Mr. AVadleigh. I am not an expert in the law, sir.

INIr. Raxkix. I am, and I will say to you that ludess you are guilty
of a crime your answer to those questions could not incriminate you.

Mr. ^NlrxDT. Mi-. Riissell.

INIr. Russell. Mr. AVadleigh, you have consulted an attorney, have
you not ?

^Ir. AA^AnLEKiH. I have consulted an attorney, but I am not now
re]iT"esented by one.

]Mr. Russell. Do you desire counsel?

jNfr. AA^ADLEioir. I would have preferred to come here with counsel.

Mr. MuxDT. AAliy couldn't you bring counsel with you?

Mr. AVADLEKiu. in consult a( ion with my attorney this morning it
was mutually agreed that he would lU) longer rejiresent me.

Mr. ]\ruNDT. AVhat was the name of that attorney?

Mr. AA^ADLEiGii. Herman (Jreenberg.

Mr. MuxDT. Of what fiiiin?

Mr. AA'adlekul Greenberg

]\Ir. Russell. Forer and Rein.

i\Ir. AA^ADLEiGir. Forer and Rein, that is cori-ect.

Mr. ]NruxnT. The Chair has a question of our committee counsel
at this stage. Has Mr. Greenberg, or any member of his linn, the firm
of Greenberg, Forer, and Rein, ai)peare(l befoi'e a committee previously
to testify or support the testimony of a witness?

Mr. Russell. They have,

IVfr. MuxnT. AAHio?

Mr. Russell. Geihart Eisler and numerous subjects who were men-
tio7ied during the course of the Bentley hearings.

Mr. MuxDT. The same fii-m has represented those witnesses as the
one consulted by Mr. AVadleigh ?

]\Ir. Russell. That is true.

Mr. MuNDT. Proceed witli your questioning.

INIr. Raxkix. Now, Mr. Chairman. I think the record ought to show
at this ]ioint that those witnesses you referred to who were found to
be members of the Communist Party.

Mr. MuNDT. That is correct.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1433

Go ahead, Mr. Russell.

Mr. Russell. Mr. Wadleigh, are you now, or have you ever been,
n member of the Communist Party of the United States?

Mr. Wadleigh. No, sir.

Mr. Russell. Have you ever filed application to become a member
of the Communist Party of the United States ?

Mr. Wadleigli. No, sir.

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party
of any other country ?

Mr. Wadleigh. No, sir.

Mr. Russell. Did you ever file application to become a member of
the Communist Party of any other country ?

Mr. Wadleigh. No, sir.

Mr. Russell. Mr. Wadleigh, have you ever acted as an informant
for any agencies of the Federal Government ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I have been interrogated by the FBI.

Mr. Russell. Did you cooperate with that organization ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I tried to, to the best of my ability.

Mr. Russell. Mr. Wadleigh, a serious charge has been made against
you, and I ask at this time that Mr. Wadleigh be made acquainted
with the nature of that charge.

Mr. MuNDT. The Chair will ask Mr. Nixon to read into the record
at this time the charges which have been made against Mr. Wadleigh
on sworn testimony before our committee.

Mr. Nixon. I shall read from the record of a meeting of a sub-
committee of this committee, which heard Mr. Chambers on Monday
of this week in New York City, consisting of Mr. McDowell as chair-
man and myself as a member. The question was by Mr. Nixon
[reading] :

Mr. Chambers, I hand you herewith photographic copies of documents made
from the microfilm which you submitted to the committee in response to a
subpena the committee served upon you.

Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir.

and then in parentheses :

(Mr. Chambers examined the document.)

The documents you are now examining are all documents from the State
Department, they bear the stamp "State Department, Assistant Secretary of
State."

Mr. Chambers. Yes. I should thinli from the nature of these documents
which I have examined they were turned over to me by Alger Hiss, and I should
make the point right here, perhaps, that the same procedure that I have de-
scribed above in the case of other photographers was also followed by Alger Hiss,
in addition to the typed documents. There was, however, another active source
in the State Department, Mr. Julian Wadleigh, who was in the Trade Agreements
Division of the State Department and it is possible some of these documents were
from him.

Mr. NixoN. Was this a source of contact?

Mr. Chambers. Yes.

Additional testimony in regard to Mr. Wadleigh :

Mr. Stripling. In addition to the individuals I have named, what individuals
in the Government did turn over documents to you?
Mr. Chambers. Julian Wadleigh.

and further on in the testimony :

Mr. Stripling. When you spoke to Adolph Berle, did you mention Julian
Wadleigh?

Mr. Chambers. Yes.

1434: COMIMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Now. Afr. TYadlci^li. as you can of coiirso appreciate the testimony
Avliich Mr. Cliainlters has g:\\en involves quite serious charges. Tlie
document whicli Mr. Russell showed to you and requested you to
identify was one of the docuuients Avhich was found to be on micro-
film which Mr. Chambers had in his possession. The microfilm was
an original copy of the documents which were taken from State De-
partment files in an unauthorized manner, and turned over to Mr.
Chambers.

Now, in view of that, and in view of your apparent desire to co-
opeiate with the investigative agencies of the (Jovernment in unravel-
ing this case, I wonder if you would now again look at the document
which Mr. Russell presented to you [ handing document to the witness].

Mr. ^^^\nL^.I(;^. I look at this document again at the conunittee's
request. 1 am not prepared to change my testimony. I might sug-
gest, however, that you inquire of the State Dei)artment as to Avhether
this i)articular document was shown to me. I don't know whether
they will })e able to answer that question or not, but 3'ou might care
to ask them, whetlier I had access to this document.

Mr. MxTXDT. You said you are now prepared to change your testi-
mony, but you didn't indicate what the change was going to be.

Mr. WAnYKioii. No; I didn't.

INfr. MuxDT. Did you say you are not prepared to change it?

Mr. AVadletgh. I am not prei)ared to change it.

Mr. MuNUT. I am sorry; I misunderstood you, sir.

Mr. Wadleigh. T am not prepaied to change it.

Mr. MuNDT. All right; you are not prepared to change your
testimony.

Mr. RrssEix. Mr. Wadleigh. the remaining portion of the document
to which the first document refers is 10 pages long.

Mr. Waoleigh. Is that so?

Mr. RrrssEiJ.. I wonder whether you could glance through this and
tell whether or not you had ever seen such a document.

Mr. A\'AnLKiGii. If tlie committee insists I will glance through the
remaining IG pages, but I do so only at the committee's insistence.
Is this the same document?

Ml-. RrssEET,. This document pertains to that document as well.

Ml-. AVadleigii. It is a diil'ereiit document?

Mr. Russell. That is right.

(Witness examines document.)

Mr. Ri'ssELT,. Would you state whether or not you have ever seen that
document in State Dej)aitment Hies or elsewhere?

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the gronnd that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Nixox. Mr. Wadleigh. Mill you state for the record that you
did not turn over that document, or any other document to Mr.
Chambers?

Mr. Wadletgh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground
that the answer might incriminate me.

^fr. Russell. Mr. Wadleigh, you studied in Germany, did vou not?

Mr. Wadleigit. I studied in Germany in 1929.

Mr. IvussKLL. Do you sjjeak German?

Mr. Wadleigh. That was 3 years, 8 or 4 years before the Nazis came
into power.

Mr. Russell. Do you speak German ?

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1435

Mr. Wadleigh. My German is not very good.

Mr. Russell. Can you write it ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Not good German.

Mr. Russell. Did you ever write any documents in German or have
them written in the German language while you were employed in the
State Department ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Russell. Did you ever translate any documents into the Ger-
man language while employed in the State Department ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Translating was not part of my duties.

Mr. INIuNDT. You have not answered the question. The Chair wants
the question either answered specifically or evaded specifically.

Mr. Wadleigh. I have no recollection of having translated any
documents into German. In fact, my German is not good enough.

Mr. Mundt. Thank you.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Wadleigh, did you indicate that Mr, Hawkins was
your Chief in the Trade Agreements Division ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I don't remember whether I indicated that, but it
is a matter of public record that he was.

Mr. Nixon. Your answer is that he was ?

Mr. Wadleigh. That is correct.

Mr. Nixon. Do you know Mr. Hawkins?

Mr. Wadleigh. Yes, sir.

Mr. Nixon. In other words, you are not refusing to answer the ques-
tion as to whether you know Mr. Hawkins on the ground that it would
incriminate you ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Mr. Hawkins was my immediate superior for sev-
eral years.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Hiss was in the State Department at the same time
you were, was he not ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I believe that is a matter of public record when Mr.
Hiss was in the State Department, I am prepared to answer the ques-
tions as to when I was in the State Department, and who were my
superiors.

Mr. Nixon. But in the case of Mr. Hiss, you say you refuse to
answer on the ground that it would incriminate you ?

Mr, Wadleigh, Yes, sir.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Wadleigh, there is a rather serious imiDlication in-
volved in your answers which I think you should be apprised of be-
fore you give additional answers of this type, and that is this: The
answer, "I must refuse to answer on the ground that I would incrimi-
nate myself," you were instructed I)ef ore we went into public session,
can only be given, and a constitutional privilege used, where a crime
would be involved in the event that the answer were given either in
the negative, in the affirmative, or otherwise.

Now, in this case, the crime that is charged, or the offense which
has been charged by Mr. Chambers, as of course is indicative from
this testimony to us, was that you, in 1938 and 1937 turned over to
him at the time that he was a Soviet espionage agent, confidential
Government information.

I should like to point out that that alleged offense, if committed then,
and not repeated after that time, would now be outlawed by the

1436 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

statute of limitations, and if you were to go on tlie stand and admit to
that, that you did tuin oxer that information, you could not possibly
incriminate yoin-self.

Now, by your rcfusin*: t«) answer thr questions as to whether you
know Mr. Chambers and whether you turned over the documents on
the ground of self-incrimination, tlie only imi)lication which can be
drawn from your answer is that this alleged course of conduct con-
tinued alter r.).")S. and through V.^MK because only in that case could
you be gu'ilty of self-incrimination.

I now ask you, in the light of this analysis, and this is not a legal
analysis, 1 might say, it is something which any layman can under-
stand — in the light, of this analysis, did you, in 10:^9, turn over any
confidential information to an unauthorized person?

Mr. Wai)ij:i(;ii. In answer to that question, I would like to point
out that in consultation with attorneys whom 1 hurriedly consulted
when I received a subpena to appear before the grand jury, I was in-
fornuHlthat this matter of the statute of limitations is not ironclad;
that there may be loopholes, and they did not have time to investigate
it, l)Ut they felt that it coidd not be relied upon.

Mr. Nixox. The loophole they were referring to, Mr. Wadleigh, was
the one that I just gave to you, and that is that the conspiracy

Mr. Waolktoti. No, sir; it is not.

Mr. Nixox. Just a moment; that is, that the conspiracy continued
beyond 1938. Now, if the conspiracy did not contiime beyond 1938.
1 think in all fairness to yourself you shoidd so indicate to the com-
mittee.

Mr. AVadleigii. It was not my understanding that tliat was the loop-
hole.

Mr. Nixox. Well, can we gather, then, from your testimony here
today that there is a possibility, as far as you wei-i> concerned, you had
no part in such a conspiracy after 1938?

Mr. Wadleigh. If I were to answer that question in the aflirmative,
I woidd be implying that T did take part in a conspiracy prior to 1938.
I am making no such admission.

Ml-. Nixox. Well, did you take part in such a conspiracy prior to
1938?

Mr. AVAnrEicH. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. MuxDT. Just what kind of admi.ssion do you think that is going
to be considered by the American public?

Ml-. Wai)Ij:igii. I will not speculate on what interpretations, false or
otherwise, might be placed upon my slatenieiits. 1 let the statements
stand.

Mr. MiXDT. Very well.

Mr. Nixox. Mr. lvus>^ell. wotild you kindly sliow the witness this
document | handing document to the witness] ?

Mr. Wadleigh, if 3'ou Avill examine that document which is hand-
written, would you indicate to ilu' committee whether or not that is
in your handwriting?

^U: W.MH.Kioii. May 1 a>k liisL, what is the date of II1..1 docunienli

Mr. Raxkix. That has nothing to do with it.

Mr. MuxDT, Answer the question first, then you may ask u.lditionaF.
questions.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1437

Mr. Wadleigii. I don't recognize it as my handwriting, but it is
about the size of my handwriting, but I don't think that

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Witness

Mr. Wadleigii. It doesn't look to me like my handwriting.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Wadleigh, it would be of assistance to the commit-
tee if you would at this time possibly give us a handwriting specimen.
Obviously we can get one from some other source.

Mr. Wadleigii. You certainly can.

Mr. Nixon. Would you kindly do that? That would be the best
evidence in this case, since you are not s^ire whether it is or is not.

Mr. Wadleigii. I would like to have an opportunity, if I may, to
examine that at some time when it would be easier for me.

]\Ir. Nixon. You certainly ma}^ have. We are simply attempting
to get at the bottom of this.

Mr. Rankin. If he is going to come here and refuse to answer ques-
tions, the committee owes him no obligation to help him find storm
cellars.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Rankin, just a moment.

Mr. Wadleigii. Well, in view of the fact that I am uncertain — let
me eliminate those words. I take that back.

Mr. MuNDT. Each member of the committee speaks for himself,
and noiie speaks for the majority. No decisions have been made, so
3^ou may proceed to answer.

Mr. Wadleigii. Yes. I would like, if I may, to take back every-
thing I said about that document, and simply say that I refuse to
answer the question on the ground that the answer might incriminate
me. But 1 will be glad to supply the committee with a specimen of
my handwriting.

Mr. ]MuNDT. You will give the committee a specimen of your
handwriting^

Mr. Wadleigii. Yes, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. You may ])roceed Avith that.

Mr. Nixon. If you will give us five signatures, Mr. Wadleigh, it will
assist us.

INIr. Wadleigh. Then this specimen is not what you wish?

jMf. KrSSELL. No.

Mr. Wadleigii. Mr. Chairman, may I make a statement on this
document ^

Mr. MuNDT. May I ask, have you finished writing?

Mr. Wadleigii. Well, I would like to make this statement : That
since I have been led to depart from my previous intention, on advice
of counsel, of refusing to answer questions of tliis nature, I wish now
to say that I have not seen that dDcument. I have never seen it and
I did not write it. It was not my intention to give any such answers
but since I have been led to discuss the document I will make an
exception in this one case.

Mr. MuNDT. May the Chair say that in all events you have supplied
a specimen of your handwriting and a handwriting expert can deter-
mine that very delinitely, so they will be able to support your position
in that, if it is correct.

Mr. Wadleigii. That I believe to be so.

ISIr. jNIltndt. As the Chair asked, lias he supplied the handwriting
s])cciinan ;'

1438 COMIMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Ml-. KrssKix. Xo. I wanted to mnlvP sure tliis Avas the document
wliicli lie says he did not write.

Mr. MuNDT. I see. Very well.

Mr. RussF.LL. You are not referring to the previous documents
which wp showed you?

Mr. AN'ADM'.icir. No; I was not referrinpf to those documents.

Mr. MuNDT. You are referring to the document, as the Chair takes
it. whicli you have just written in your own handwritin<:; after having
the contents dictated hy Mr. Kussell, our counsel, is that correct?

Ml'. "\V.\i)LKi(iir. I haven't finished this. Do you want me to linish it?

Mr. Mdxdt. All right, finish it up and then sign your name at tlie
bottom.

Mv. "\V.\nLEi(iii. Might T give it to the committee after the hearing
is terminated ? It is a little difficult.

Mr. MuxDT. "We would like to have you finish it now and have the
matter disposed of.

Ml". WAi;LEKiii. You Want to have me finish it now?

Mr. MuNDT. Yes: go right ahead.

Ml-. AVadleigh. Yes; all right.

Ml'. MrxDT. "Will you put five signatures of your name on there?

JNIr. AVadleigii. Yes, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. All right, Mr. Russell, you may proceed with your
questions. Have you further questions?

Mr. RussELX,. One further question.

Mr. ]MuNDT. Proceed.

Mr, Ri ssEix. Have you ever been a member of an organized group
whose jmrpose was to furnish information to a foreign power?

Mr. WAin.Eicn. T refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Ri'ssELE, That is all the questions I have. Mr. Chairman.

^Tr. MiTNDT. Mr. AA'^adleigh, the Chair would like to refer for a
moment to the statement you made earlier that in consultation this
morning with IMr. Greenberg it was mutually agi'eed that lie would
not rej^resent you at these hearings. I thiidc I have quoted you
correctly, have I not ?

INIr. AVAnLEicir. That is correct.

]Mr. ^IixDT. I would like to ask you whether you were contacted
by any third party, any third party at all, suggesting to you that
you teiminate your connections with Mr. Greenberg in connection
with this case?

Mr. AA'adeeigii. Xobody made any such suggestion to me.

Mr. MuNDT. Was the termination of your consultation with ^fr.
Greeiilicrg as a result of your suggestion or his?

Mr. A\'Ai)EEi(;n. That is a matter which devel()i)ed in discussions
between counsel and client, sir.

^Ir. Ml NDT. You do not care to inform the committee?

Mi-. AA'aueeigii. I understand that it is my right not to divulge
what took place in such consultations.

Mr. Ml xi>T. You do iu>t lune to, I am simply asking you whether
you cared to give that information to the connnittee, or not. You are
not r('(|uired to do so.

Mr. AVadleigii. I would prefer not to do so without consulting Mr.
Greenberg fii-st.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1439

Mr. MuNDT. Did j'ou terminate your employment with the Govern-
ment at your request or at the request of the Government ?

Mr. Wadleigh. You mean the United States Government?

Mr. MuNDT. That is correct,

Mr. Wadleigh. At my request. I would like to amplify that.

Mr. MuxDT. I think you testified earlier that you also terminated
your employment with the Italian Government on December 7, of
this week and that that was at your request?

Mr. Wadleigh. At my request.

Mr. MuNDT. Did you want to amplify your statement?

Mr. Wadleigh. I just wanted to say that my reason for terminating
my employment with the United States Government was that I re-
ceived an offer for a position with UNRRA.

Mr, MuNDT. Who made that offer to you ?

Mr. Wadleigh. My superior in UNRRA was Mr. Cairns and na-
turally when you receive an offer of employment you receive it from
the person who is going to be your immediate superior.

Mr. MuNDT. That came from Mr. Cairns?

Mr. Wadleigh. Cairns,

Mr. MuisTDT. Will you spell it, please, and identify him for us?

Mr. Wadleigh. C-a-i-r-n-s.

Mr. MuNDT. All right, Mr. McDowell.

Mr. IMcDowELL. Not at this moment,

Mr. MuNDT. Mr, Rankin,

Mr, Rankin. Mr. Wadleigh, have you any military record?

Mr. Wadleigh. No, sir,

Mr. Rankin. You were not in this war at all ?

Mr. AVadleigh. I was in the theater of war in a civilian suit, sir.

Mr. Rankin. I see, that is all right. What time did you quit the
State Department i

Mr. Wadleigh. I was transferred from the State Department to
FEA as the result of a merger — well, I was transferred to FEA. I
do not need to go into the details unless you insist upon it. That was
in 1943.

Mr. Rankin. 1943 ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. That was 2 years after Pearl Harbor, You refused
To answer whether or not you were turning over secret documents to
foreign agents during that time, on the ground that your answer
might incriminate you. That is right, isn't it?

Mr, Wadleigh, That's right,

Mr, Rankin. If your answer was "No," if you were not turning
over these documents at the time our boys were dying by the thou-
sands on every battlefront in the world, your answer would be "No,"

Mr. Wadleigh. My answer to that question is on advice of counsel,
sir.

Mr. Rankin. I understand. It is about time that the Government
took some steps to disbar some counsel. We have had this inter-
ference before.

In other words, if you were not guilty of giving out these secret
documents during those trying and dangerous times, your answer
would be "No." Now, the only thing that could happen to you if

80408—48 — pt. 2—^5

1440 COMMUNIST ESPIOXAGE

YOU answered "No" now would be that if you were handing those docu-
ments out you coukl be convicted of perjury; tliat is right, isn't it ^

Mr. A\'Ai)M:i(iii. I was advised by counsel not to answer any ques-
tions in regard to such matters, inespective of the date. If I start
discriminating as to dates then that will get me involved in the same
fix tliat I irot involved in oxer the handwriting.

Mr. Kankix. It might get you invohed in moiv than that, if you
told us the truth. A man of yoiir age sporting around Europe in
civilian clothes certainly ought not to object to telling us whether or
not he was giving out secret docunicnts that wcic aiding our enemies
and killing American boys during tho.se terrible years. That's all I
have to .say.

Mr. MuxDT. l\Ii-. Xixon.

Afr. Xixox. Mr. Wadleigh. when you were witli the Division of
Traile Agreements were you there as an economists

Mr. ^^'ADLl•:IGII. Yes, sir.

Mr. Nixox. Just briefly, what were your ruiutions as an economist
in that Division ?

Mr. Waolkk;!!. I was engaged in work conncctfd witli the nego-
tiation of trade agreenuuits between the United States and foreign
countries.

Mr. Ntxox. "Which specific foreign countries would you say that
the greater volume of your work was with during that jx'riod S

Mr. Wadlkigh. Turkey, France, Belgium. IVlay I say in explana-
tion there that in referring to France and Belgium I am not referring
to the first agreement with Franc(> oi- the first agreement with Belgium.
I liad not i)articipated directly in that.

There was work being done just before the war broke out in Europe
on a new agi'eement witli France and on a new agi-eement with Belgium.
That wr)rk was interruj)ted.

Another part of my functions which you may be interested in was
general work on quotas and exchange controls in their bearing on
United States trade agreements.

Mr. Xixox. When you were the UX'RRA would yoti briefly de-
scribe what your specific functions were S You were with UNKKA
in the United States, I uiulerstand.

Mr. WADLf'.ir.H. That is correct. I worked mainlv on evaluating the
requirements of those counti'ies which received food from UXKRA.

Mr. X'lxox. "Which specific countries did you work on at that time,
Mr. Wadleigh S

Mr. AVadli:i<;ii. All of them.

Mr. Xixox. All of the countries which

Mr. "Wadlkigh. All of the countries that received food from
UNRRA.

Mr. X'lxox. You did not spend more or less time on one country
than another? I think we all realize that the functions within a
department are

Mv. "Wadlki(;h. My functions were not limited geographically.

Mr. Xixox. You mean, in other words, you spent a relatively equal
amount of time on all the countries?

Mr. "Waulkujh. That is correct.

Mr. Nixon. Your mission to Italy was for the State Department; is
that the case?

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1441

Mr. Wadleigh. That is correct, although the mission itself was
transferred to FEA during the course of the time that I was over
in Italy.

Mr. Nixon. Would you describe briefly the purpose of that mission
and your function ?

Mr. Wadleigh. The purpose of the mission was to advise the —
well, no, I beg your pardon. I started out on the wrong track here.
The mission was a part of the Allied Control Commission which waa
administering liberated Italian territory.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Hiss was never there working with you in the same
department in the State Department ; is that the case i

Mr. Wadleigh. Mr. Hiss, I understand, was in the — well, I knew it
at the time also — was in Mr. Sayre's office. He was not in the Trade
Agreements Division.

Mr. Nixon. Did you indicate in executive session you were in some
way, as I thought, attached to Mr. Sayre's office as well ?

Mr. Wadleigh. No.

Mr. NixON. You brought his name in in some connection; do you
recall what it was ?

]Mr. Wadleigh. Yes; simply in this connection, that the Trade
Agreements Division was under the general supervision of Mr. Sayre
but it was not a part of his office.

Mr. NixoN. I see.

Mr. Wadleigh. That is, at the time when I entered it had previously
been a part of his office, but I entered the State Department in March
1936. At that time the Trade Agreements Division was a division sub-
ject to the general supervision of Mr. Sayre but was not a part of his
office.

Mr. NixoN. Did vou have any negotiations with Mr. Sayre's office
at all i

Mr. Wadleigh. I occasionally sat in his office on conferences, not
very often. I wasn't highly enough placed to be there very frequently.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Hiss was his asisstant. Did Mr. Hiss sit in on those
conferences as well ^

Mr. Wadleigh. I don't recall at this time who sat in on any par-
ticular conferences that took place more than 10 years ago.

Mr. Nixon. I understand, but I am just asking if Mr. Hiss sat in on
any conferences.

^Ir. AVadleigh. He might have.

Mr. Nixox. Do you know Mr. Hiss, then ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I saw Mr. Hiss during the course of my work in the
State Department.

Mr. Nixon. Did you ever turn oyer any documents to Mr. Hiss from
the trade-agreements department in which you were employed ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I have no such recollection.

Mr. Nixon. Your testimony is that you do not recall having done
so?

Mr. Wadleigh. Well, the nature of my duties was such that I might
easily have taken something to him in the course of my official duties.
I do not recall any specific occasion on which I did so.

Mr. Nixon. Have you been in Mr. and Mrs. Hiss' home ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Nixon. Do you know Mrs. Hiss?

1442 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. WAm.KTnii. I refuse to iinswt>r that question on the groinul that
the answer mi^lit incriminate me.

Mr. Nixon. Do you know Donald Hiss?

Mr. Wadlkigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer mi<j:ht incriminate me.

Mr. Nixon. I have no further questions.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Hehert.

Mr. IIkukkt. Mi-. Wadlei«rh, T want to make my i)<>sition very cMear
and jrive you anotiier (>j)i)oil unity that I attempted to <jjive you in
executive session. My position. 1 thiidv. is well known (»n this com-
mittee tliat I object to any jMihlic lu'arinjzs being held until a man
has had an oj)p()i'tunity in exi'cutive session to deuionsti-ate his desire
to cooperate. Also, we sliould attemi)t in executive session to give
them an opportunity to prove to this conmiittee that he is innocent of
the cliarges brought against him.

In other words, my |)()sition is this — and T maintained it thi'ougli-
out — that I object to any individual's name being mentioned in i)ui)lic
Until tliat individual has the opportunity to protect himself and to
deny the charges before this connnittee in executive session, at which
time the connnittee can then determine^ whetliei- it wants (o make it
public, or not.

Yours is one of the most outstanding cases of that procedure, so far
as I am concerned. Your name up to this moment has been protected
and not released by tliis committee in any maiinei-. shape, or form.
You api)eare(l before the connnittee this morning and were given
every opjx)rtunity to cooperate and deny each charge. You refused
to cooperate. You refused not only to cooperate in giving us the
information, but you refused the opportunity of making a flat denial
of the chai'ges that were made against you. I inuneilialely conseiUed
with the rest of the committee to have it in public, then it could be
right out in the open after you had been given an opportunity.

Now you say you consulted counsel — and 1 am trying to be as fair
to you as I can — and you are answering some of these (|uestions on
advice of counsel, refusing to answer on the grounds that it might
inci'iminate or degrade you; is that correct ?

Mr. "Wadletoti. That is correct. T was advised by counsel not to
answer any ([uestion which might have any connection, howe\er re-
mote, with the accusations that have been made against me by Mr.
Chambers.

Mr. Hkbp.RT. And that is the sole reason that you are standing on
those constitutional rights^

Mr. Wadleigh. I was advised so to do by counsel. I am not an
expert in the law myself, and T thought it in my interest to follow
the advice of counsel.

Mr. Hkbekt. If you were left on your own you would freely admit
or di.scuss these matters?

Mr. Wadlkioii. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
tlie answei- might incriminate me.

Mr. IIkmkim. 1 am giving you every oppoit unity. Mr. "Wadleigh.
You are the individual, sii-. who makes up his mind whether you want
to take the advice of coinisel. and hide behind the shield of your
constitutional rights, which I do not challenge, oi- else to follow your
own good judgment of a clear conscience and merely and simply deny
the charges and the allegations which have been made against you.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1443

Between those two you choose to follow the advice of counsel?

Mr. Wadleigh. I follow advice of counsel.

Mr. Hebert. That is tantamount to what you would have us believe
is a clear conscience and innocence of any charges made against you?

Mr. Wadleigh. Is that your inference?

Mr. Hebert. How is that ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Is that your inference?

Mr. Hebert. That certainl}^ is what I accept it to be.

Mr. Wadleigh. Thank you.

Mr. Hebert. Because if I was in your position, sir, I would be most
eager to deny everything flatly. I would be most eager to clear myself,
not only from the public mind

Mr. Rankin. If you are able to.

Mr. Hebert. That is what I mean, if I was able to. Because you
must keep in mind, and every other witness must keep it in mind,
that nothing has been proved against you except the statement of
another individual. It is your word against his word, and you are
just as rightful to deny what he has said, but always keeping in mind
that if you deny and it is later proved that you were lying, then you
are subject to perjury. So I can only draw one inference.

Now, is this the first time that you have stood on those constitutional
rights in discussing these matter or in answ^ering the questions which
have been directed to you by this committee?

Mr. Wadleigh. Sir, the only previous occasion that I have had
the opportunity to choose whether or not to stand on that right was in
my testimony to the grand jury yesterday,

Mr. Hebert. Let me interrupt. I am not trying to probe into the
grand jury.

Mr. Wadleigh. And therefore — if I may finish — I believe it would
be inappropriate for me to answer that question.

Mr. Hebert. No; don't do that. Did you ever discuss these matters
with the Federal Bureau of Investigation ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I was interrogated by the Bureau.

Mr. Hebert. Did you tell them that you wouldn't answ^er the ques-
tions we have now propounded to you?

Mr. W^adleigh. Well

Mr. Hebert. Now, that is not a secret. I don't want to know about
the grand jury, but I want to know about the FBI. Wliat did you tell
them?

Mr. Wadleigh. I was informed by the FBI that the statements that
I made to them were not to be divulged. At least that was my
understanding.

Mr. Hebert. Well, I will tell yOu now that thej^ can be divulged-
There is no law which says you can't tell us what you told the FBI.
Now. what did you tell the FBI ? You have another chance.

Mr. Wadleigh. Well, I would be glad to tell you what I told the
FBI if I have the consent of the FBI, or after consulting counsel.

•May I have the opportunity to consult counsel before I make that
decision ?

Mr. Hebert. Well, you have no more counsel. You just mutually
ended that agreement.

Mr. Wadleigh. I will have to find another one.

Mr. Hebert. You have to find another counsel.

Mr. Wadleigh. That is right.

1444 com:mijnist espionage

]\rr. Hkrert. Xow, in that connection you went to a Mr. Greenberg,
I niidorstand.

Mr. Wadlkigh. That's right.

Mr. Hkbkrt. Had you known Mr. Greenberg before you went to
him ?

Ml'. Wadi-f.igii. No, sir.

Mr. IIkrkht. Who recomniendod you to Mr. Greenberg?

Mr. Wadleigh. Mr. Joseph Nellis.

IVfi-. IIkbkrt. Mr. whom?

IVfi-. "Wahleigh. Mr. Josopli Nellis.

INfr. Hebert. N-e-1-l-i-s?

Mr. Wadleigh. Tliat's right.

Mv. IIebert. Who is Mr. Joseph Nellis?

Mr. Wadleigh. He is a lawyer in Washington wliom T know per-
sonally.

Mr. Hebert. How long had you known Mr. Nellis?

Mr. Wadleigh. Foi- a couple of years.

Mr. Hebert. And when did you go to IVfr. Nellis?

Mr. Wadleigh. When I received a subpena from the committee —
I mean, from the grand jury.

Mr. Hebert. INIr. Nellis could have advised you to stand on your
constitutional rights, couldn't he? He is a lawyer. I am sure he is
as good a lawyer as Mr. Greenberg; he knows the law.

Mr. Wadleigh. IMr. Nellis told me that Mr. Greenberg was the right
man for me.

]\Ir. Hebert. Did he tell you why he was the right man ?

IVIr. Wadleigh. I presume he did it for professional reasons.

Mr. Hebert. Did he tell you that Mr. Greenberg's firm had repre-
sented Gei-hart Eisler and other well known Communists, and is quite
expert in representing Communists? Did he tell you that?

Mr. Wadleigh. He told me that Mr. Greenberg has represented
persons appearing before this committee.

Mr. Hebert. Didn't it seem strange to you that Mr. Nellis would
send you to a firm whose reputation is well known for representing
Communists?

Mr. Wadleigh. I did not know, sir, that the political views of a per-
son represented by an attorney are in any way to be attributed to the
attorney who represents him.

Mr. Hebp:rt. You are getting into a nice field now, Mr. Wadleigh,
and you have opened the door.

Mr. Wadleigh. I assumed

Mr. Hf:bert. You opened the door. You made the statement now
that you didn't think a person's political views had anything to do
with his ]irofessional rating, and I certainly agree with you.

Mr. Wadleigh. No, sir; I did not say that.

Mr. Hebert. AVell, what did you say? Say it again.

Mr, Wadleigh. I said that the views of the lawyer and the views
of the client are not necessarily identical, and in this case it is rriy
understanding that they are very definitely not identical, in the E'isler
case that you referred to.

Mr. Hp:bert. You used the expression which is a well known Coni-
inunist line.

Mr. Wadleigh. I didn't know that, sir.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1445

Mr. Hebert. Well, you want to withdraw that, then, don't you ; I
mean as to political views?

Mr. Wadleigh. Well, I don't know what expression you are re-
ferring to.

Mr. Hebert. I am referring to your expression of political views as
nobody else's business, in other words, to paraphrase what you said.

Mr. Wadleigh. That is pure Americanism, sir.

Mr. Hebert. I am not disputing what it is ; I merely said that ex-
pression was a typical Communist answer up until these recent hear-
ings. Now they stand on their constitutional rights. Before they
refused to answer the question, and when they found out they could
be cited for contempt and convicted of it, they changed their tune.

Mr. Wadleigh. All I am saying is that it was my understanding that
Mr. Greenberg — and it is still my understanding and my conviction —
that Mr. Greenberg's views are not identical with those of certain
persons whom he has represented.

Mr. Hebert, That is what I am trying to point out ; that the same
procedure is the well-known line of communism. You deny that you
are a Communist?

Mr. Wadleigh. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hebert. You never have been a Communist ?

Mr. Wadleigh. That is correct.

Mr. Hebert. Have you ever learned the Communist theory of gov-
ernment — I shouldn't ask you that ; I am getting along political lines
now.

Mr. Wadleigh. Am I required to go into a political catechism?

Mr. Hebert. I don't want to discuss it with you, because I am
afraid we would never get together.

Now, let me understand about the advice of counsel, refusing to
answer on constitutional grounds.

You went to see Mr. Greenberg before you appeared before the
grand jury in New York, I presume?

Mr. Wadleigh. That is correct.

Mr. Hebert. Was that before you talked with the FBI ?

Mr. Wadleigh. No.

Mr. Hebert. And, of course, it was not before you appeared before
this committee?

Mr. Wadleigh. Correct. Wait a minute. Wliat was that ques-
tion ^

Mr. Hebert. It was before you appeared before this committee?

Mr. Wadleigh. Yes; I saw them this morning before I appeared
before the committee.

JNIr. Hebert. So now we have a conflict of advice — I am leaving
the grand jury out — he advised you not to talk to this committee and
to stand on your constitutional rights, but did not advise you to
talk to the FBI ; is that correct ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I had already spoken to the FBI.

Mr. Hebert. You just a minute ago said you saw counsel before
you saw any of the three agencies.

Mr. MuNDT. No; you misunderstood.

Mr. Wadleigh. You misunderstood me, sir.

Mr. Hebert. All right. I want the record to show it correctly.

Mr. Wadleigh. I went to counsel after I received the subpena from
the grand jury. I had previously spoken to the FBI.

1446 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Hkbkkt. Now. when did the FBI talk to you?

Mr. Wadlkicii. Deceinher (1.

Mr. Hkheht. Was that the first time the FBI talked to you?

Mr. W.vnLEiGir. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hkiu-.kt. You had never been in contact with the FBI before
December C). VMSi

Mr. Waulkich. No, sir.

Ml'. Hkiucut. You didn't know any agents of the FBI before De-
cember ('• ?

Mr. Wai)i,i:i(;ii. No, sir.

Mr. Hkkekt. And had never been in contact with them?

Mr. Wadleigii. No, sir.

Mr. Hebekt. And then you were under no compunctions of advice
of counsel wheji you first went to the FBI i

Mr. Wadlekhi. That is correct.

Mr. IIeheht. And you freely discussed the matter with them; is
that correct i

Mr. WADLj'ncJir. I would like to have advice of counsel before I say
anything here about my discussions with the FBI.

Mr. PIehert. Now, ^Ir. Wadleigh, just again for the sake of the
record, to put you on record and to give you another opportunity to
clear your own skirts, have you at any time engaged in anything
which would smack of espionage against the United States Govern-
ment ?

Mr. WAnLEioir. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Hehert. You refuse to make a flat denial that you are innocent
of that cluirge, and you have the opportunity now?

Mr. Wauleigh. I refuse to answer the question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Hebert. That is all.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Vail.

Mr. Vail. Mr. Wadleigh, during the period of your em]:)loyment
with the State Department, were you aware of any instance in which
another employee of the Department delivered documents belonging
to the State Department to any outside person?

Mr. Wadlekml. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. Vail. No further questions.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Wadleigh, the Chair would like to ask a question
or two.

Have you ever seen or met Miss Elizabeth Bentley?

Mr. AVadleigii. I refuse to answer that question on the ground
that the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. MuNDT. I think you will understand, Mr. Wadleigh, that you
have been charged with very serious crimes involving disloyalty to
your country. You are one of three men now under suspicion, as the
residt of sworn testimony taken under oath, and an accninuhition of
circumstantial evidence. We have brought you before the comiuiltee
in an efi'ort to give you an opportunity to deny those charges, if 5'ou
are innocent, and in an effort to establish proof of your involvement
if you are guilty.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1447

It seems to me that as a young man with average intelligence, you
must realize you have contributed nothing this morning which
would to refute the charges against you, or which would tend to
establish your innocence, if you are innocent of the charges made, and
of the evidence which has been given.

I dislike to see any injury brought to anyone who is innocent, cer-
tainly, so I want to give you another and final chance, following the
analysis which I have made of the situation now confronting the
country,

I ask you once more this question :

Have you ever turned over to unauthorized persons any govern-
mental documents which have been temporarily in your custody?

Mr.. Wadi.eigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. MuNDT. May I ask you whether there is any further state-
ment you care to make before this connnittee ?

Mr. Wadleigh. No, sir.

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. McDowell has another question.

Mr. McDowell. You testified, Mr. Waclleigh, that you are not a
member of the Communist Party. I don't believe the question has been
asked : Have you ever received any money, or any other valuable
thing, for giving restricted information or documents to anyone?

Mr.. Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer might incriminate me.

Mr. McDowell. Do you know where Keonig Street, Baltimore, is?

Mr. Wadleigh. No, sir.

Mr, McDowell. Mr. Wadleigh, are you married ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Yes, sir.

IMr. McDowEix. Do you have a family?

Mr. Wadleigh. Yes, sir.

Mr. McDowell. That is all.

Mr. Mundt. Mr. Rankin.

Mr. Rankin. I have one or two questions.

Where were you on December 7, 1941 ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I presume I Avas at work in the State Department..
That was my regular place of business at the time.

Mr. Rankin. You were still on the Federal pay rolls ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Yes.

Mr. McDowell. That was on a Sunday.

Mr. Wadleigh. Was it a Sunday? That's right. Well, I was at
home.

Mr. Rankin. Don't you remember where you were that day ?

Mr. Wadleigh. Yes ; I remember, now ; I was at home.

Mr. Rankin. You were on the Federal pay roll at that time?

Mr. Wadleigh. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Are you aware of the fact that secret documents
slipped out and supplied indirectly to the Japanese, contributed to
the destruction of our Navy and the murder of more than 3,000 of
our heroic men at Pearl Harbor ?

Mr. Wadleigh. I believe I read something about that in the news-
papers.

Mr. Rankin. I wondered how you found it out. Mr. Wadleigh, at
that time were you giving out any secret documents?

1448 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. "Wadleigh. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that
the answer nii<2:ht incriminate nie.

Mr. Kaxkix. Now, then, in otlier woids, you are between two fires
ri<i:ht now — one of them is treason and the other is perjury. If you
admitted you did ^ive these documents out at that time, you woukl he
guilty of treason. If you did not give them out, your answer is "No" —
a very simjjk^ answei- — and the only tiling that could come to you by
answering "No" would be conviction of ijerjury, if it was shown that
you were giving out these documents at tliat time.

Mr. Wadleigh. May I ask the committee this (question : If that mat-
ter is considered germane to the Hiss-Chaml)ei's investigation, then my
answer remains that 1 refuse to answer on the grounds that the answer
might incriminate me.

Mr. Rankin. It is germane.

^fr. Wadleigh. If it is not germane to it. then perliaps I might
change my testimon3\

Mr. Rankin. It is germane, and you better be glad tliat you are
before a committee of Congress and not before a court maitial.

Mr. Wadleigh. I am under tlie grand jury; I am still undei' subpena
to the grand jury.

Mr. Kankin. If you were before a court martial, you would answer
whetlier or not you were giving out these secret documents at that
time and perpetrating treason against your country.

Mr. AA'adleh!H. I still ask: Is that germane to the Hiss-Cliambers
investigation?

Mr. Kankin. Yes; it is germane.

Mr. Wadleigh. If it is germane, then my answer stands. If it is not
germane, I am prejiared to change my answer to that one.

Mr. MuNDT. Any other questions?

Afr. NixoN. Yes; I wouhl like to folloAv tliat. Your answer to the
question, then, is that you did not, in 11)41. give out any seci-et docu-
ments to any group unconnected with the Hiss-Chambers controversy?

Mr. Wadleigh. I stand by my previous testimony, sir, that if the
committee rules that that niattei' is germane, I will ])ersist in refusing
to answer the ([uestion. If the committee rules that the answer is not
gei'mane. I will reconsider it.

Mr. Mundt. No question about its germaneness, because it strikes
rijrht at the core of what we are trvinir to detei-mine: Wlio was it who
filched the documents from the State Department and delivei'ed them
to A\'hittaker Chambers? It involves precisely those documents. It
is ]irecisely germane.

\\r. Kankin. And later to our enemies during the war.

Mr. MiNDT. There being no further (piestions, the committee will
stand adjourned, and the witness will be continued under our subpena.

Mr. Russell, do we have another witness?

That will be all for you foi- the moment, Mr. Wadleigh.

\s'\U counsel call tlie next witness?

]\[r. Russeij.. Mr. Owens.

Before Mr. Wadleigh leaves, Mr. Chairman, do you desire that he
be retained under subpena?

Mr. MiNDT. Yes.

Mr. Wadleigh. May I point out that I am still under subpena by
the grand juiT ?

]\rr. Mundt. You are now under two subpenas?

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1449

Mr. Wadleigh. That is right.

Mr. MuNDT. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?

Mr. Owens. I do.

Mr. MuNDT. You may be seated. I

TESTIMONY OF COURTNEY E. OWENS |

Mr, Etjssell. Will you state your full name, Mr. Owens ?

Mr. Owens. Courtney E. Owens.

Mr. Russell. Mr. Owens, you are attached to the committee staff
as an investigator, are you not ?

Mr. Ow^ENS. That is right.

Mr. Russell. Mr. Owens, did you serve a subpena upon Mr. Wad-
leigh this morning?

Mr. Owens. I did.

Mr. Russell. Where was that subpena served ?

Mr. Owens. The within-named individual served in the offices of
Herman Greenberg, Joseph Forer, and David Rein, attorneys at law,
1105 K Street NW., Washington, D. C, at 11 a. m. of this date.

Mr. Russell. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Wadleigh last
night regarding his appearance before the committee ?

Mr. Owens. I did.

Mr. Russell. That conversation occurred after you had endeavored
to locate him all day yesterday, did it not i

Mr. Owens. That's right.

Mr. Russell. What clid Mr. Wadleigh tell you last night?

Mr. Owens. Mr. Wadleigh reached me by phone last night about
11 :30. We had endeavored to reach him at his home in Vienna, and
his wife had no knowledge of his whereabouts. Mr. Wadleigh called
me and said that he had been in New York all clay, and that he had
been testifying before the grand jury. I told him that we had been
searching for him, that the committee desired testimony from him,
and he said that he would be glad to come down here tomorrow.
Well, I said, "I would like to serve you, and where can I meet you
tomorrow morning, at your office?" He said, "No," that he would
rather meet me at our offices.

He told me that he had an appointment to see counsel at 9 :30 this
morning, and would come immediately to these offices from counsel's
offices. That was what the gist of the conversation was last night.

Mr. Russell. In other words, when he talked with you last night
he gave you the impression that it was his counsel with whom he
intended to confer in the morning?

Mr. Owens. Exactly.

Mr. Russell. That is this morning ?

Mr. O^VENs. That's right.

Mr. Russell. This morning did Mr. Wadleigh get in touch with
you regarding his whereabouts ?

Mr. Owens. No ; he didn't. I began to get a little concerned, and
then made further attempts to locate Mr. Wadleigh at about 10:45
when he hadn't shown or hadn't called.

Mr. Russell. Did you locate Mr. Wadleigh ?

1450 COMMITXIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. OwFNS. Yes; I did. I located him in the offices that I read
off a minute ago.

Mr. liussELL. What time was that?

'Sir. Owens. I reached him about 11, witliin 10 minutes of 11 o'clock,
between 11 and 11:10. I left these ollices and proceeded to those
offices, 1105 K Street.

Ml-. Russell. That is all.

Mr. MixnT. That is all for the witness.

The committee will meet in executive session at 3 : 80 this afternoon.

(Whereupon, at 1 : 50 p. m., the comiuittee adjourned.)

HEAEINGS EEGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE IN
THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART TWO

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 10, 1948

United States House of Representatives,

Special Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,

Washington^ D. G.

The subcomniittee met, pursuant to call, at 11 : 30 a. m,, in the
Caucus Room, Old House Office Building, Hon. Karl E. Mundt (acting
chairman) presiding.

Committee members present: RepresentatiA^es Karl E. Mundt (pre-
siding), John McDowell, Richard M. Nixon, Richard B. Vail, John
E. Rankin, and F. Edward Hebert.

Staff members present: Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator;
Louis J. Russel and William A. Wheeler, investigators; and A. S.
Poore, editor.

Mr. Mundt. The committee will come to order, please. "

The record will show that after being in executive session the motion
was made we go into open session and was carried unanimously ; also
that the following members of the committee are present in adclition
to tlie chairman : Mr. McDowell, Mr. Nixon, Mr. Vail, Mr. Rankin,
and Mr. Hebert.

The connnittee had before it in executive session, briefly, Mr. Nathan
Levine, and Mr. Stripling will please call Mr. Levine to the stand and
let him proceed with his testimony in open session.

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Levine, will you please take the witness chair.

Mr. Mundt. Mr. Levine, I will ask you to stand and be sworn again.

Do yon solemnly swear the testimony that you are about to give is
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Levine. I do.

Mr. Mundt. You may be seated.

TESTIMONY OF NATHAN L. LEVINE

Mr. Stripling. Mr. Levine, will you please state your full name ?

Mr. Levine. Nathan L. Levine.

Mr. Stripling. And your present address?

Mr. Levine. 960 Sterling Place, Brooklyn, N. Y.

Mr. Stripling. Wliat is your profession ?

Mr. Levine. I am an attorney at law.

Mr. Stripling. How long have you been an attorney ?

Mr. Levine. Since 1933.

Mr. Stripling. Where do you practice law ?

Mr. Levine. 152 West Forty-second Street, Manhattan.

1451

1452 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Stripling. "Wlien and where were you born ?

Mr. LE^^NE. Januar}' 18, 1911, Brooklyn, N. Y.

Mr. SriuPLiNcj. Are you acquainted with an individual by the name
of Whittaker Chambers^

Mr. Levin E. Yes.

Mr. Stripmno. How lon<r have you known Mr. Chanilx'rs?

I\Ir. Lkvinr. Approximately 15 years; since just before he was
marrietl to my aunt.

Mr. Hkbert. Do you mean you have known liim 15 years or did
you know him 15 years before that ^

Mr. Lkvine. All told, 15 years.

ISIr. Stripling. Mr. Levine, you are here in response to a subpemi
served upon you by C. E. McKillips; is that correct?

JNIr. T>i:vine. I am.

!Mr. Striplix(;. Did Mi-. AVhittaker (^hamliei's ever <rive a i)arka<ie
to you to hide for him or to keej) for him (

Mr. Levine. He gave me an envelope to put away for him some
10 years ago.

Mr. SiKii'Lixo. Will you exi)lain to the committt^e the cii'cumstances
under which Mr. Chambers gave you this envelope.

Mr. Levine. At that time he had been in morbid fear of being
liquidated by the Connnunists. He had indicated to me at times that
because he was no longer with the Communists that they were going
to either assassinate him or hurt him or members of his family. He
and his wife and his two children — I think the second one was already
born — had been around the country going from i)lace to place and we
did not know where they were about that time.

On one or two occasions I accomi)anied him to an apjiointment that
he had, in which he was afraid that the appointment was a plant, and
I went along for whatever advantage T could be or whatever protec-
tion T could be.

On the occasion of his giving me the package, he asked me to put it
away for him and that if anything hajipened to him 1 was to give
it to Esther, his wife. In the conversation we also asked — and when
I say '"we"* I mean myself — I asked what would ha))pen in the event
both he and Esther were liquidatc>d, and he said, "You would know
"what to do with it, you are an attorney."

Mr. Stripling. "When he gave you this package v.-as it sealed?

Mr. Levine. Yes.

Mr. Striplixc;. Were you familiar with the contents?

Mr. Levine. No.

Mr. Stripling. But he indicated to you that if you o])ened it you
•woidd know what tf) do with it; was that an impression that you got
from him (

'Mr. Levine. Yes.

Ml-. Striplix(;. Did he say anything about turning it over to the
authorities or to the j)olice?

Mr. Lkvine. Xo. That is my own assumption.

Mr. Stkiplinc;. But he did tell you you would know what to do
with it?

Mr. Levine. That is right.

JMr. Rankin. Give the size of the package, please.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1453

Mr. Levixe. Approximately 7 inches wide and about 11 or 12
inches long, and approximately an inch to an inch and a half in
thickness.

Mr. MuNDT. Did it contain those articles Mr. Stripling is showing
you ?

Mr, Stiupling. Here is certain microfilm we have obtained by snb-
pena, Mr. Levine, and ask you if it would have been possible for the
three tin cylinders and the two rolls of film to have been in the
envelope which he gave you ?

Mr. LE^^I^^E. It was possible.

Mr. Stripling. In other words, the envelope was large enough for
these to have been placed inside ?

Mr. Levine. And bulky or curved.

Mr. Stripling. It was very bulky ?

Mr. Levine. Yes.

Mr. Stripling. What did you do with the package after Mr. Cham-
bers gave it to you —

Mr. Chairman, I have interrogated the witness regarding the details
of this matter, and it will be necessary for him to give the address
where this package was placed and where it was deposited for the
10-year period. We have gone into it very thoroughly and the mem-
bers of the staff of the committee are convinced up to this point, at
least, that the persons who reside at this address are not involved or
implicated in any way in this matter, and for that reason I ask that
the committee take under consideration the deleting frora the record
or keeping out of the i-ecord the exact address of the place where this
package was concealed.

Mr. Levine will be glad to give the committee the address. The
proper authorities have the address. But I think no good purpose
could be served at this time, under the circumstances which he has
explained to me, to bring out the address.

Mr. Levine. Mr. Chairman, I think I am willing to give the address
to avoid any so-called mystery about this, and I wish the press would
only be a little considerate about it.

Mr. MuNDT. I think the press will be if you will explain the reason
why.

i\Ir. Levine. It is the address of my mother, and about 2 years ago
we almost lost her. She has a heart condition and she is quite con-
cerned about this. She does not know the actual hiding or putting
place, but she knows it is in her house, and her children are making
every effort to avoid her heartaches or trouble.

Mr. MuNDT. I believe at the time you hid the films in the house you
were living there ?

Mr. Levine. Yes; and at that time I was single.

Mr. McDowell. It is your hope the press will not swarm or over-
whelm your mother.

Mr. Levine. I hope so, sir.

Mr. Stripling. You want to put the address in the record ?

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir.

Mr, Stripling, Go ahead and give the committee all of the circum-
stances and details of what you did with this package after you re-
ceived it from Wliittaker Chambers.

1454 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Levine. I took this })iuk:i<ro and put it on top of the old dumb-
M'iiitei- shaft wliicli liad been oonverled on the second and first Hoors
into a liiu'u (■h)s('t. The aihh'ess is 2()(> Kochestei- A\t'mu'. Brooklyn,
N. Y., and is the home of my folks. At that time I resided with them,
and at that time they occupied l)oth the fii-st and second (loois.

'I'he house is so constructed, or was so constructed, that there was
an old dund)-waiter shaft from the toj) of the house to the cellar. On
the second floor and on the fii-st flooi'. some 15 years ago it had been
converted into a linen closet for each apartment.

I j)ut it on the toj) of the dunib-waitei- shaft so that it rej)osed on
the top of the linen closet on the second floor. Access t(> that particular
spot was obtained throu<ih the bathroom window, which has an air
shaft from the roof to the floor below, the first floor. It remained
there foi- 10 years.

Mr. Stkiim.ixg. Did you ever at any time during that period of 10
years check to see if it was still there?

Mr. Levine. No. T had forofotten about it.

Mr. SrHii'LiNii. You put it there and it remained there?

Mr. l<evine. That is right.

Mr. Stoii'Mng. Before vou continue, Mr. Levine, I wish you would
give the connnittee any intoi-niittion you hav<^ as to the manner in which
this envelojie was sealed.

Mr. Levine. It was a manila envelope and it was gummed. I be-
lieve there was a piece of gum placed over the flaj). This gum j)iece
is white with a red bordei'. Also there were two piongs which fasten
over ami take the l\n\) of the envelope. I believe it was either elastic
or rubber band, or possibly cord that originally bound it.

Mr. Stripling. All right, sir. Now, you placed this envelope there
10 years ago?

ilr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. Stripling. Do j^ou recall the date or time of year that you
placed it there?

Mr. Levine. No, sir.

Mr. Striplinc. Did "Whittaker Chambers ever get in touch with you
after you had placed it theie, regarding the ])ackage?

Mr. Levine. About o weeks ago this j)ast Sunday he was at my home.
On that morning I had received a telegram from him. which telegram
was telephoned by Western Union to my home. Previous to that, on
either the Thursday or Friday prior thereto, he had telephoned me and
stated that he wanted to see me and said tlial he would contact me on
Sunday.

Mr. Mi'ndt. As far as you can recall, what were the contents of that
telegram?

]\rr. Levine. "Arriving 1 oVlock. Have mv things readv," or words
U) that effect.

At the time that I received the telegram message over the telej)hone,
my wife asked me what had occurred, or what the telei)hone call was,
and I repeated the message to her. and she said to me, "What does he
nu>an?" I said "I will be darned if I know. He jjrobably has .some
books and pamphlets in the cellar of my mother's home, but in the
10-year period my nephew and his friends must have cleaned out that
cellar on four or five occasions and probably threw away most of the
stuff."

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1455

He still niav have some books there or pamphlets which I have shown
to the FBI.

At some time after 1 o'clock I received a telephone call from him
telling me he had arrived and was coming down. He came to my
home and we were just about finishing our lunch. We had other mem-
bers of the family over. He came in and I invited him to have a cup
of coffee and miscellaneous items of food.

Mr. Stripling. What address was it he came to on this Sunday?

Mr. Levixe. 060 Sterling Place, Brooklyn.

Mr. MuNDT. That is your present home address ?

Mr. Levine. Yes ; wliere I reside with my wife and two children.

Mr. Stripling. I w^ant to make it clear this was not at the same
address where these papers had been deposited.

Mr. Levixe. Since January of 1939 I have been married, and m
January 1939 I lived at 486 Brooklyn Avenue and have lived at other
addresses since.

Shall I proceed?

]\Ir. Stripling. Yes ; proceed.

Mr. Levine. During that afternoon we conversed and he told me
about the Federal court proceeding wherein Alger Hiss had sued him
for $75,000 damages in a slander and libel action, and that there were
depositions then pending. He asked me various things pertaining to
depositions and he then told me that one of the inquiries or interroga-
tories was whether he had anything in writing pertaining to the Hiss
matter.

I told him that the books and pamphlets that he had around the
house and junk wei-e probably thrown out, that we still had some stuff
in the cellar we didn't know whether it belonged to him or belonged to
my brothers-in-law, or it might have even belonged t(5 me.

During the conversation mention was made of a package that he
had given to me some 10 years prior. I indicated to him that I had
it over at mother's house, and during the time that he was there niother
and dad and my brothers and sisters at times came in. The conversa-
tion I had with him, of course, was interrupted, and he told them
about his appearances before this committee and various other details.

Mr. Stripling. What we want is all the facts which relate to this
package.

Mr. Levine. A little after 4 we left. I told the members of the
family that were present in my apartment that I was going to take
him to the train. We left and I took him to 260 Rochester Avenue,
Brooklyn, N. Y. We went into the house, and much to my surprise,
my nephew was still there, and he had been in his hobby cellar.

Mr. Stripling. How old is your^ nephew?

Mr. Levine. Twelve and a half. I introduced him to his uncle Whit-
taker Chambers. He then went back into the cellar, and after I re-
moved my coat, we went upstairs. I then went into the air shaft
through the bathroom on the second floor and reached up and looked
for this package. I got the package and gave it to him with the 10
years of dust on it. Part of the dust fell off into the bathtub, onto the
bathroom floor, and all over, and my hands were filthy. I remember
that we washed our hands.

JNIr. Stripling. You handed him the package?

80408 — 48— pt. 2 6

1456 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Lkvink. Tliat is riizht. TIumi :i little later he went into the
kitchen and he apparently opened up the i)a('kaire. At that time I
Avas in the hathrooiu eleanin<; up the mess in the bathtuh and on the
floor and on the sink. On one oeeasion 1 came into the kitchen and
he was standinjr about the middle of the kitchen with some papers in
liis hands, and he uttered an exclamation to me which I don't lUMnem-
ber the exact words — it was either "holy cow*' oi' some exclamation,
"I didn't think that this still existed," or "was still in existence.*'

About that time Donald, my nephew, called to me and I went to the
hall. AA'hen T came back later, he asked me to obtain an envelope oi-
what they call a fokler, antl I went downstairs and procured a folder
and fiiwe it to him.

I think I went back to the hall and then a little latei- we left.

Mr. Strii'ltn(;. Where did you <r() when you left the housed

Mr. Li:vixE. 1 started to take him to the subway station, but instead
I took him to the Pennsylvania Railroad Station by car — in my ear.

Mr. Stripling. What conversation, if any, ensued after you left the
house?

Mi-. r^EvixE. Well, we talked about the Federal court matter, various
details. He asked me questions about depositions, and I fjave him
some le<;al advice and I asked him if I could jiossibly hel}) him in that
Federal court case. I told him. thoujih, that he would first have to
si)eak to his attorney. lie told me who his attorney was.

Mr. STKirLiNG. You say the Federal court case. You are speaking
now of the civil action?

Mr. Lkvixe. That is rio;ht.

Mr. S'nuri.iNM;. Proceed.

Mr. Levixe. He told me that ^fr. Cleveland was his attorney, and
I told him thatlie had better ask Mr. Cleveland before he could avail
himself of my counsel, that Mr. Cleveland mi<rht not want me to come
down fi'om New York.

During the conversation we also spoke about the atmosphere in
which his Federal court case was going to be tried. I told him that
the pul)lic was probably forgetting about all this spy ttilk that had
ensued during the summer and that if I were he, I would either get a
good publicity man or I would write a series of articles waking uj)
America to the situation that he was trying to accomi)lish. and that
if he had a better atmosphere, chances are that the result he woidd
obtain in the Federal coiii-t would be much better for him.

He also told me about Alger Hiss and his various connections.

Mr. Stiui'lixg. Had he ever told you prior to that time the details
of his operations in the Communist Apparatus and undei-groumH

Mr. Levixe. No.

Mi-. Striplixg. He had never discussed those details with you?

Mr. Levixe. No.

Mr. Sthii'Eixc;. INIr. Levine, are you now or have you (>ver been a
member of the (\)mmunist Party ^

Mr. Levixe. I am not a Communist and I have never been a Com-
munist, nor has anv other member of mv familv been a Conmiunist or
is a Communist.

Mr. SiHin,iX(;. You then took Mr. Chambers to the i-ailioad station
and let him out: is that correct? Did \'ou leave liim there?

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1457

Mr. Levine, He invited me in to dinner, I had dinner with him, in
the Pennsylvania restaurant, and then we went out. He had a little
time. We went back to my car and we talked, and I tried to give him
some legal advice. He told me to wait until I heard from him.

Up until that time I didn't even know his farm address. I had
never been to his home. Up until that time I had not seen him for 4
years and over a period of 10 years I might have seen him but four or
five times.

IVlien he came to my home, my wife had not seen him in the 10 years
that we had been married, or approximately 10 years that we had
been married. I introduced him to my son, who is going to be 8 in
January, saying that that was his uncle. Up until recently, when
I had noticed in the papers, I didn't know he had been a Quaker. I
thought he had another religious faith.

I recall one incident approximately a little after the time he became
associated with Time magazine. I had been with him and he told
me that the reason he took a job with Time magazine was so that he
should be in the public eye so that tlie Communists would not dare
attempt to liquidate him. That was the reason he took a job of such
importance.

Mr. Stripling. That is all the questions I have, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MuNDT. The Chair would like to ask this question :

You have known Whittaker Chambers altogether, as I understand
it, about 15 years or 10 years.

Mr. Levine. About 15 years. A little before he was married to
my aunt.

Mr. MuNDT. During that interval did you know him by any other
name than Whittaker Chambers? Did you ever communicate with
you in any way under any alias or pseudonym ?

Mr. Levine. No, sir. He was only known as Whittaker Chambers.

Mr. MuNDT. When he would sign a communication to you such as
telegrams, he would sign Whittaker Chambers or Uncle Whittaker?

Mr. Levine. Just Whit. We rarely used the "uncle" part.

Mr. MuNDT. You mentioned earlier that on one or two occasions
because of Mr. Chambers' dread fear of Communists, you accompanied
him on appointments to places he felt might be a plant.

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. MuNDT. Could you give us any insight into the nature of the
appointments of that type ?

Mr. Levine. I remember on one occasion when he visited a woman
in connection with some free-lance translating work, that he appar-
ently was doing for his livelihood. Before we went up there, he
asked me to have dinner with him, and I had dinner with him some
place in New York, and he then told me that he wanted me to ac-
company him to this particular place and that he was afraid that
possibly some Communist had made the appointment as a plant and he
was fearful of the results.

He asked me if I would go along with him and, of course, I said I
would, and I think he once said, "Well, do you know how to scream,"
or some words to that effect. The place is either in the 100-and-some-
odd street or in the Bronx in an apartment house. I went there and I
sat nearby within hearing distance, and they talked about translating
some manuscript. Apparently it was a perfectly legitimate set-up.

1458 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. ]\IrxnT. Knowinjr your uncle as y»)u did. did ho «j;ivo you a
pretty definite oj)iuion, autiientic oijiuion. that lie actually was in
fear of soniethin<r?

Mr. Levine. There is no douht about that.

Mi-. MrxDT. Xo douht ahont that?

Mr. Levine. Xo doubt abt)ut it.

Mr. IMuNDT. And that continued for about how lon<r, this feelinj^
of fear on his part t

Mr. Lkvixe. Well. T wouldn't b(> surprised if it continued to a little
after the time he took the job with Time magazine and jirobably t-ou-
tinued in reservation to date.

Mr. MixuT. Were there any other appointments on which you ac-
companied him as a sort of protector or secui-ity oflicer?

Mr. Levixe. There was another occasion, but I couldn't tell you the
details.

Mr. ]\Ii'XDT. Tt also turned out to be not a plant ?

Mr. Levixe. That is ri<rht. He met some man.

Mr. McDowEEE. Mr. Chairman. I think the conunittee should know
re<rardin<r Mr. Tjevine some of the actions at the hearing in the Hotel
Commodore in Xew York last Monday niuht when Mr. T>eviiie's name
Avas brought into this matter for the lirst time.

Mr. Chambers was asked various questions as to tliese matters that
have been testified to here today. We were concerned about where
this stuff had l)eeii kept over a period of years. He described when he
had put the material into the pumi)kin only a few hours before it was
finally found. He then described that he had friven this packa<re t(j
his nei)hew and he named Xathan Levine rather reluctantly.

When we (|uestioned him about Xathan T.<evine. he promi)tly (|uali-
fied Mr. Ijevine as knowinji^ nothin*; at all about the contents of the
packaire. about not bein<j: a Communist in any sense, of b<Mn<r, as he
described it, a very fine and decent vounp: lawyer in the citv of New
York.

Now, subsequent investifration by the members of tiie staff indit-ates
that Mr. Chambers was tellin<j the truth, that Mr. I.<evine is a normal
patriotic and decent citizen and has no connection with this entire
conspiracy. I think that should l)e made a ])art of the record.

Mr. MuNDT. 1 ai)preciate that. Mr. McDowell, and I think it is
very important to make that statement.

Mr. McDowell. Also investijration develops that he has a reputa-
tion of beiiiif not only a lawyer, but a <;ood lawyer.

Mr. T.<i:vixE. Thank you.

Mr. MuxDT. The committee is simply tryinp: to corroborate or dis-
prove some of the previous testimony we have had concerning; the
location and transfer of this envelope of material, and up to now
your testimony has corroborated the executive session testimony that
we have had on that point by Mr. Chambers.

^Ir. Kaxkix. Mr. Levine. you say this material was hid on top of
a dumb-waiter. AVas that dumb-waiter in use during; those years?

Mr. Levine. Xo. Al)oiit 15 or 20 years a<ro the dumb-waiter shaft
had been converted on the floor levels — the second floor and first floor —
into linen closets.

Mr. Kankix. So it was what you mitrht call a dead dumb-waiter.

Mr. Levixe. A dead dumb-waiter shaft. Just dumb.

Mr. Raxkin. That is all I care to ask.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1459

Mr. Nixox. You indicated that you put this envelope in the shaft
in the first instance approximately 10 years ago?

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. Nixon. And you were the person who obtained it from the
shaft 4 weeks ago this Sunday?

Mr. Levine. This coming Sunday.

Mr. Nixon. Yes.

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. Nixon. Now in examining the envelope would you say — was
there any question in your mind whatever that it might have been
opened in that period ?

Mr. Levine. It wasn't open and I think the condition of the envelope
would indicate that it was there during the entire 10 years. I pointed
out to the FBI and showed them the spot. They examined the spot.

I also say that you can examine the dust up there and the dust on
the envelope and I can show you that it came from the same spot.
Probably the condition of the envelope itself would show you that
it had existed there for 10 years.

Mr. Nixon. The seal had not been broken ?

Mr. Levine. The seal had not been broken. It had been inviolate
and until that time Mr. Chambers didn't know it was there.

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Chambers during this 10-year period didn't know
it was in that spot ?

Mr. Levine. Of course not.

Mr. Nixon. You were the only person that knew it was in that spot?

Mr. Levine. Yes. sir.

Mr. Nixon. As far as you know, then, nobody during that period
had access to that particular spot where the envelope was located
or availed themselves of access to that spot ?

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. Nixon. I want to have the record clear on another point. When
you learned of the contents of this envelope there, will you describe
to the committee when you first learned it and what you did at
that time ?

Mr. Levine. This past Friday when the news exploded in the news-
papers, I had occasion to see it in one of the New York papers.

Mr. MuNDT. By that you mean the news exploded involving your
name?

Mr. Levine. No; exploded that there was some spy papers.

Mr. McDowell. In the pumpkin?

Mr. Levine. In the pumpkin or whatever it was. All I remember
is there was news about spy papers, and I put two and two together.
I telephoned the Federal attorney's office and I went down later to
the Federal attorney's office on Friday.

I had seen the FBI men on Saturday and Sunday, and I have
testified before the grand jury in part on Wednesday.

Mr. Nixon. Did the Department of Justice people talk with you
Friday about this case ?

Mr. Levine. In all fairness to them, I just asked whether they
could see me.

Mr. Nixon. You gave them your name?

Mr. Le\t:ne. Oh, yes. Then after waiting a little while, a sugges-
tion came from the Secretary that the party was very, very busy and

1460 COMIMUXIST ESPIOXAGE

could 1 see them Monday or was it all ri<i;ht if I let it «;o until Mon-
day, and 1 said, '"All light, let it go until Monday,'' that I would
get in touch with the office on Monday.

Saturday and Sunday I had the Fl3I men at my house and we had
them also over at '2(\().

Mr. Xi.\c)N. You heard from the Department of Justice again when,
on Monday?

Mr. Li.viNK. They asked me to appear before the grand jury on
^londay. 1 appeared without a subpena and then 1 was served with
a sul)i)ena later during the day. I wasn't reached on Monday. I
was subject to a telei)hone call every hour on Tuesda}' and on Wednes-
day morning 1 test ilied befoie the giand jury in part, and I understand
1 am still subject to cull lor continuance of m^' testimony.

Mr. XixoN. Mr. Chairman, the witness has testified concerning the
connection Mr. Chambers had with Time magazine. I think at this
point in the record it might be well to read into the record the state-
ment Ml. Chambers has just released in New York City se\ering his
connection with Time magazine.

It reads as follows :

I have (irt«'r(>(l my ri'si^riiatitHi as a seiiioi- editor (tf Time inaRaziiie. It lias
been accepted. l}(»th of these acts became imijcrativc when I receiill.v began ty
make reveUitious about Communist espionage. When Time hired me in 1939, its
editors knew that I was an ex-Comnmnist ; they did not know that espionage
was involved.

For 9 yeais I have l)e('n actively figliting communism. I boliove I was helpful
in alerting Time's editors years ago to the dangers of world-wide connnunism
which have been confirmed by events and which are now generally, if not im-
peratively, understood in this cotmti'y. In my own writing I have tried to give
expression to human values which I know from my own exjx'rience communism
denies and destroys. Now, after 9 years of work done in good conscience, I have
been called up to expose the darkest and most dangerous side of couinninism —
espionage. This can be done only if a man who knows the facts will stand up
and tell them, without regard to the cost or conse(]uences to liimself. I cannot
share this indispensjible ordeal with anyone. Therefore, with a quiet and firm
mind, I am withdrawing fi-om amonu the colli-agnes witli whom I worked for
so many years and whose supiK)rt has been loyal and generous.

The statement of the publisher of Time, Mr. Linen, upon receivinir
this statement today from Mr. Chambers, is as follows :

Time has accepted Mr. Chambers' resignation for the reasons he so well
expres.sed.

In accei)ting his resignation now, Time does not wish to prejudge and is not
prejudging his recent disclo-sures. Not until all the evidence is in can the pros
and cons be weigiied.

Mr. R.vxKiN. Mr. Chairman, a i)oint of order.
Mr. XixoN (continuing reading) :

Against the admittwl disservice to his countiT of a deeade ago. must be set
the service we are convincetl he is trying to perform for his country now.

I have a T^articular reason for briiioin<r this in at this time.

Mr. K.\NKiN. From the vicious and unwarranted attacks that Time
magazine has made on me. I don't think a Communist on their editorial
staff would embarass them, and I just object to reading this defen.se
of it into the record. I don't mind them reading the witness' testi-
mony in here.

Mr. MuNDT. Your objection is noted, but it comes after the fact.
The reading has been concluded.

COMMUNIST ESPIOXAGE 1461

Mr. K-ANKiisr. As far as I am concerned, all the perfumes in Arabia
wouldn't sweeten Time magazine to me.

Mr. Nixon, Mr. Levine, Mr. Chambers could have avoided his pres-
ent difficulty very easily by simply having you destroy these documents ;
could he not ?

Mr. Levine. He could have destroyed them himself or the house
could have gone on fire and destroyed them.

Mr. Nixon. There was never any suggestion at the time he saw these
documents that they were to be destroyed ?

Mr, Levine. No. There was no suggestion as to their contents.

Mr. Nixon. I might say also, Mr. Chairman, in that connection that
this committee during its hearings during the past summer and also,
as well exemplified by the witness that we heard yesterday, has heard
witness after witness come before it, men who have been most critical
of Mr. Chambers and who have when they have been questioned con-
cerning their activities in the Communist underground plead
self-incrimination.

I think that with the criticism which, of course, must be made of
Mr, Chambers for the actions that he committed 10 years ago which
were not in the best interests of this country, that in fairness to him
we should recognize that this evidence which has the effect of bringing
before the American people for the first time effectively the real
essence of the Communist conspiracy and its real danger, is available
only because this man was willing to risk a jail sentence, the loss of
his position, and criticism of his family and of himself from now on.

Mr. Levine. Absolutely.

Mr. Nixon. I wish to also point out that Mr. Chambers came to
the Committee on Un-American Activities 10 years after his activities
with the Communist Party were severed. He testified, he answered
questions, he answered all of them at that time that we propounded
concerning the individuals who were before the committee; and, in
presenting that information, he himself could have followed exactly
the same line under the same Constitution that some of the Com-
munists are availing themselves of at the present time and plead self-
incrimination. As a result of that Mr. Chambers would still be a senior
editor of Time magazine, his family would still be in a favorable
position as far as he is concerned, and there would be no danger what-
ever to his life insofar as threats from the Communists or insofar as
Government prosecution, M'hich apparently is inevitable at the present
time.

I am not making this statement for the purpose of making a defense
of Mr. Chambers, but I think the record should show the factors
which enter in at this time, and I for one wish to say that Mr. Cham-
bers, apart from the disservice that was rendered to the country and
a disservice which was rendered only because there were people in this
Government who gave him the information that he was able to turn
over to the Communists and which he couldn't have rendered without
the cooperation of those people, that apart from that, that Mr, Cham-
bers has willingly and voluntarily, with no necessity at all upon his
part to do so, rendered a great service to the country by bringing these
facts before the American people at this time.

That is all.

1462 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mt-. ^ri'XDT. "With tliat the Chair wouhl like to a(hl conroniiiiir the
si<];iiilicaiic-e of the revehitioii of those (loeiunents the fact that in New
York a day or two a*ro a representative of the Department of Justice
in a rare moment of }1(hh\ will and »renerositv toward this committee,
said publicly that at last tlicv had been supjuied with some documen-
tary evidence to proceed witii this case, and that (h)cumcntary evidence
came because and only because the investigator of this conunittee
found those documents, ])rocured them, made them available without
subpcna to the Attoi-iu^v (ieiUM-al's odice. :ind lUMthei- all the perfume in
Arabia nor the sli<j;htly less arouuitic odor of a red luMiino- can erase
that from the record.

Mr. IIkmkkt. Mr. Levine, lu)w well had you known your uncle, ^Miit-
takei" (^hambers. befoi'e he took you into his confidence to take tluit
packa<j:e to set-rete for him (

Mr. Lkvink. Well, I knew him socially; I recall ^oino; to the gym
with him, T had dinner occasionally with nim.

For a shoi't period of time, 1 thiidv ai-ound ID.'iG, 19;'>7, he occupied
the hall bedroom at 'JGO Rochester Avemie, wliich he occasic>nally came
into, I think for a very short period of time, a period of a few months.
That w;is the i-eason we were left with his books and junk.

Mr. HkiU'.rt. He lived at your home?

Mr. Lkvink. He occupietl the hall bedroom and had access from the
liall. His wife was my aunt,

Mr. Hkhkrt. Did she go away with him wlien he went away or did
slie remain there?

Mr. Lkvixk. He lived there alone.

Mr. Hkmkkt. Wliere did she live?

Mr. Levine. Throughout the country, addresses T couldn't even tell
you.

INIr. Heukht. What business was he in ?

Mr. Levine, I did not know, other than I remember sometldng about
the woi-d "accounting" or he was translating books.

Mr. Hkhkrt. He was a writer?

Mr. Lkvink. He was either a writer or translator. He translated for
other writers.

Mr. Hkhkrt. Did you ever know wliether he lived in Washington
over any period of time?

Mr. LK^^NE. No, sir.

Mr. Hkhkrt. You did not know that ?

Mr. T>KviNK. Xo. sii-.

Mr. Hkhkrt. Did you ever hear him mention tlu> name of George
Crosley ?

Mr. Lkvine. Xo, sir.

Mr. Hkhkrt. Did you evei- hear him mention the name of Alger Hiss
or Donald Hi.ss at that time i

Mr. Levine. No sir.

Mr. Hkhkrt. Except for the fact tliat you assumed that he was a
translatoi- of books oi- a writer in a fashion, that was the only occupa-
tion you knew he had?

Mr. Levine. Other than the word possibly "accounting" or "account-
ant."

Mr. Tn:HERT. Did he ever ex])ound his communistic theories of gov-
ernment to you or discuss any political form of government with you?

Mr. Levine. No, sir.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1463

Mr. Hebert. You had no indication at all to indicate to you that
he was a member of the Communist Party or a Communist func-
tionary ?

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. Hebert. What reaction did you have when he finally told you
he was a Communist and had broken away and was in danger of his
life ? Did you discuss that with him ?

Mr. Levine. I guess a sort of protective one. He was a relative.

Mr. Hebert. Was it a surprise to you ?

Mr. Levine. Well, it was certainly a surprise.

Mr. Hebert. Did you ask him how he had become a Communist and
why he had broken ^

Mr. Levine. No; I don't think we went into that. He was older
than myself, and I apparently must have listened rather than asked
questions at that time .

Mr. Hebert. How old are you ?

Mr. Levine. I am now 37.

Mr. Hebert. He is 10 years older than you ?

Mr. Levine. Yes.

Mr. Hebert. He is 47 or 48. There was nothing that occurred in
your mind to discuss this matter with him other than for him to hand
the package to you and for you to secrete it ?

Mr. Levine. I didn't secrete it. I put it away.

Mr. Hebert. If you crawled up a shaft to hide something in the
dumb-waiter shaft, you certainly secreted it. That is not a customary
place to store articles, is it?

Mr. Levine. No, sir.

Mr. Hebert. You secreted it.

Mr. Levine. I put it away so the prying hands of children wouldn't
get it.

Mr. Hebert. Did you put anything else up there so that the prying
hands of children couldn't get at it ?

Mr. Levine. No ; that is the only time.

Mr. Hebert. You did secrete it.

Mr. Chairman, I w^ant to comment and again reiterate my position.
I believe Mr. Chambers has done a splendid service to this countiy.
At the opening of these hearings I made the remark that the only way
you could find criminals and have a successful police department was
through the use of stool pigeons.

I do want to comment, however, and bring out the fact that Mr.
Chambers did not tell this committee the entire facts in the case
when he was brought before us the first time; and if it had not been
for Mr. Alger Hiss filing a suit against Mr. Chambers which forced
Mr. Chambers to produce evidence to protect himself in a slander
suit, we probably would not have gotten as much as we now have.

I don't want to commend Mr. Hiss for bringing a libel suit. I say
that in an objective fashion in order to keep the record straight.

I appreciate what Mr. Chambers has done, and I don't appreciate
the fact that he may be used as the goat of the situation, and all these
expressions of gratitude to Mr. Chambers and condemnation of others
should not allow this committee to lose sight of the fact that the man,
men, woman, or women in the State Department who stole those docu-
ments have not been apprehended by the j)roper agency of this Govern-
ment after 10 years. That is the important thing. Chambers and

1464 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Hiss are incidents to me. I want the real criminals and I want the
people who are supposed to know how to do their business to <ret them
and stop issuing statements in criticism of a connuittee which is trying
to do its job.

Mr. MuNDT. In that connection, I wonder if you would not agree
with the Chair. You make a very important ])()int. Had it not l)een
for the existence of this committee and the functioning: of this com-
mittee in open hearing, Mr. Alger Hiss would never have brought
suit against Mv. Whittaker Chambers, so the documents woidd never
have been brought into existence up until this very moment.

Mr. Hebkkt. If it had not been for the existence of this committee,
this country would not have been alerted against tlie danger of Com-
munists and communism. It has been a tough fight against almost
insurmountable odds.

Mr. Rankin. Since the rest of you have expressed your views, I
would like to say this: I am not yet convinced that Mr. Chambers
was not a Comnnmist during the time he was on the staff of Time
magazine. I cannot join in any exuberant commendation of a man
who knew all during the war, according to his own testimony, that this
man AVadleigh, who had been passing out, according to his statement,
secret dfKMmients from the State Department, was still in that ])osi-
tion and ]:)robably carrying on the same conduct while our boys weie
dying by the thousands on every battle front in the world, and many
of them perhaps as a result of this treachery: ;md knowing also at
the time that this man Hiss, who he says was also ])er))('ti'ating this
treason, was still in the State Department — all that tlirows many ([ues-
ion marks with me, but there is one thing that is definitely certain.

"Willi all the nagging we have had from the present Attorney Gen-
eral, this committee has done a great work and if it had not been for
this connuittee, this conspiracy would never have been uncovered.
If we did not have the ocular proof, I would still have grave doubt^s.
but we have these microfilms, copies of the documents that were
stolen fi'om the State Department at that time, sind nobody has ever
been able to explain those documents oi' those microlilms a way.

In other Avords, in the words of William C. Bi-andt. the great
iconoclast, "You can't explain a dead cat out of the family cistern."
They have never been able to ex])lain those documcMits ;iway. and if
we had listened to the carping criticism of Tom Clark, the Atloiney
Geneial, we would never have got our hands on them.

Mr. Stripling. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Mv\m: Mi-. Vail.

Mr. Yah.. Mr. Levine. during the lO-yt'ar period duiing which you
had possession of the envelope, did you ever have a feeling of curiosity
as to its contents (

Mr. IvF.VTXF.. I had f<^rgotten about it.

Mr. \\ml. You uiarried suhsecjuent ly. You never had any occasion
to discuss the envelo])e with your wife ?

Mr. Lkvine. No. sir; except recently, if you mean that.

iSIr. Vail. No: T meant pvlov to that. When the Hiss-Chambers
case broke and this conunittee was holding hearings on that ca-e,
didn't vour memory revert back to the time when Mr. Chambers had
delivered the documents to you :

Mr. Levine. No, sir.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1465

Mr, Vail. In other words, you never gave it another thought until
it was brought to your attention by Mr. Chambers again?

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. Vail. But you did remember at that time the phice it was ?

Mr. Levine. Not immediately, but by tlie time we got to 260 Roches-
ter Avenue.

Mr. Vail. If you had recalled it, it would be natural for you to re-
move the envelope ?

Mr. Levine. Certainly.

Mr. Vail. But you had completely forgotten its existence?

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. Vail. And it was recalled to your memory

Mr. Levine. Besides, I didn't know the contents of it.

Mr. Vail. At the time that it was opened in your home

Mr. Levine (interposing). My mother's home.

Mr. Vail. In your mother's home, did you have an opportunity
to view the contents at that time ?

Mr. Levine. No; outside of this instance where he was holding
some papers in the kitchen and I came in. Outside of that instance,
I didn't have any opportunity ; and besides, even if I saw what it was,
I still wouldn't know what it was except writing.

Mr. Vail. You didn't have an opportunity then to look closely
enough to see the film ?

Mr. Levine. That is right.

Mr. Vail. On those occasions when you accompanied Mr. Cham-
bers to these suspected plants, you went along as his body guard?

Mr. Levine. I guess you would call it that,

Mr. Vail. Were jon armed ?

Mr. Leat:ne. Oh, no.

Mr. Vail. No further questions.

Mr, Levine, Except I am 6 feet 1.

Mr. Rankin. When he opened these documents there, you said
in the kitchen, did you suspect the significance of them at all?

Mr. Levine, He opened them, and I was in the bathroom. At the
time he opened the envelope in the kitchen, I was in the bathroom.

]Mr. Rankin. I understand.

Mr. Levine. And then a little later when I did come in, I still
didn't know what they were and I didn't know what they were until
this past Friday when this thing exploded in the newspapers.

Mr. Rankin. Did j'ou suspect the significance of them at that
time?

Mr. Levine. Of course not. If I did, I would have burned them,
probably.

Mr. Rankin. Well, to say the least, we are uncovering some of the
most flagrant treason that has ever been committed in the history
of this country,

Mr, MuNOT, Anything further? If not, thank you, Mr. Levine.

The committee will go into executive session in the committee room
at this time,

(Whereupon, at 12:30 p, m,, the open session was concluded,)

HEARINGS EEGARWNG ESPIONAGE IN THE
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 14, 1948

United States House of Representatives,

Subcommittee of the Committee on

Un-xVmerican Activities,

Washington^ D. G.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11 a. m., in room 226,
Old House Office Building, Hon. Karl E, Mundt presiding.

Committee members present : Rejjresentatives Karl E. Mundt, John
McDowell, Richard M. Nixon, John E. Rankin, and F. Edward
Hebert.

Staff members present: Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator;
Louis J. Russell, Donald T. Appell, investigators; and A. S. Poore,
editor.

Mr. Mundt, The committee will come to order.

The committee has been hearing in executive session a series of pre-
liminary questions propounded to Mrs. Bachrach, and by motion of
the committee, passed unanimously, we have decicled to go into open
session at this time. I will ask Mrs. Bachrach to stand and be sworn
under the usual procedure.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God? ' ' FJ

Mrs. Bachrach. I do.

Mr. Block. If the Chairman please, could I assume that my notice
of appearance has been duly noted and that it is not necessary to
repeat it ?

Mr. Mundt. We will get to that in a moment.

TESTIMONY OF MARION BACHRACH

Mr. Stripling. Mrs. Bachrach, will you please state your full name
and present address.

Mrs. Bachrach. Marion BacRrach, 242 West Eleventh Street, New
York City.

Mr. Stripling. What is your present occupation ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I am a writer.

Mr. Stripling. Where are you employed?

Mrs. Bachrach. In the national office of the Communist Party.

Mr. Stripling. How long have been employed there ?

Mrs. Bachrach. To the best of my recollection, approximately 3
years.

Mr. Stripling. Would you give the committee a resume of your pro-
fessional background for the last 15 years I

1467

1468 COMIMUXIST ESPIONAGE

Mrs. Bachrach. On advice of counsel and involving my rights botlj
under the first amendment and the fifth amendment. I refuse to answer
that question. Under the fii^st amendment I consider it an invasion
of my ri<rhts to privacy of association and ])olilical views. I wish to
make in open session the statement I have ah'eady ma(k> in closed ses-
sion, concerninji: my understandinir of the fifth amendment, and that
is that it was desi<rned not to shield the ^lilty, but to protect the inno-
cent aLMinst possible self-inci-imination. and I therefoi-e exei-cise my
riirht against ])ossible self-incrimination in refusin<r to answer that
question.

Mr. MuxDT. The Chair would like to say at this point, as he did in
the closed session, that he believes tiie ladv has e.\i)ressed the jfenesis of
the fifth ameiuhnent coi-rectly, but unfortunately a <rreat many jiuilty
have been using it to shield the guilty as well as to protect the innocent.

]\rr. Raxkix. She admits she represents an organization that is
dedicated to the overthrow of this Government.

Mr. Mi'XDT. That is right.

Mr. Striplixg. ]\Irs. Bachrach, are you here in response to a sub-
pena i

Mrs. Baciiracii. Yes.

Mr. Stku'lin'^g. Are you accompanied b}' counsel?

Mrs. Bachrach. I am.

Mr. Striplixg. Counsel, would you identify yourself again for the
record ?

jNIr. Bloch. My name is Emanuel II. Bloch. I am an attorney with
offices at 270 Broadway, New York City.

Mr. Stripling. Is this your first appearance before this conmiittee?

Mr. Bt.och. It is not.

Mr. Strh'lixg. Did you represent Mr. Steve Nelson when he was
before the committee?

Mr. Bloch. I did.

Mr. IMrxoT. AVho is Mr. Steve Nelson?

Mr. SiHirLiNc;. A\'<)uld you identify Mr. Steve Nelson for us?

Mr. Block. Before I answer that, how long ago was that?

'Sir. Striplixg. Several months ago. He is a Communist Party
official.

Mr. Rankix. Let me ask this, Mr. Stripling. Did you say he wa«
a Connnunist Party official?

Mr. Strh'Lixg. He is a Communist Party official. He was called be-
fore the committee in connection with the espionage investigation re-
garding the theft of atomic secivts.

He declined to answer the questions,

Mr. Raxkix. He admitted he was a representative of the Coni-
nninist Party ?

Mr. SiifU'LixG. He still is. I believe Mr. McDowell can explain it
fuither.

Mr. ^fcDowKLL. He is the head of the Communist Party in western
Pennsylvania, eastern Ohio, and noi-thern AVest Virginia. He now
lives in Harmarville, Pa. I believe he served the Communist Party foi-
a number of years as a sort of secretary of labor. He is an expert
on so-called foi-eign groups and is currently working to keep the Tito
Comimmists from jumping the line here as they did abroad.

to

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1469

Mr. Bloch. I assume that I don't have to answer the question. Now
1 have no kno^vledge of some of the things Congressman McDowell
says, except that Steve Nelson, to my knowledge — and he so testified
here — was, and I believe still is, a functionary of the Communist Party
operating in or about the Pittsburgh area.

Mr. MuNDT. That is the Steve Nelson you represented ?

Mr. Bloch. Yes; a few months ago he was subpenaed to appear
before this committee and before a subcommittee consisting of Con-
gressman Thomas, Congressman McDowell, and Congressman Vail,
and the hearing was conducted in this very room. I don't recollect
the precise date.

Mr. Rankin. Are you a Communist ?

Mr. Bloch. I would like to respond to Congressman Rankin's
question.

Mr. Rankin. Just answer the question. That is all.

Mr. Bloch. I am going to answer it. This question by Congress-
man

Mr. MuNDT. The record should show before you answ^er it that the
lawyer has not been sworn.

Mr. Rankin. I ask that he be sworn, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MuNDT. He is not a witness.

Mr. Rankin. He is going to make an awful lot of testimony here.

Mr. Bloch. I haven't offered any testimony yet. You asked a
question, and I am perfectly willing to reply to you if you will give
me a chance.

Mr. Rankin. Unless he is willing to answer under oath, I withdraw
the question.

Mr. MuNDT. The question is withdrawn. Proceed, Mr. Stripling.

Mr. Nixon. I have one question.

Was Mr. Nelson the man that was alleged to have been involved in
the "Scientist X" case?

Mr. Stripling. That is right.

Mr. McDow^ELL. Nelson, by the way, is a native of Croatia.

Mr. Bloch. I would like to say, if I may-- —

Mr. MuNDT. Unless you want to be sworn, you are not to testify.

Mr. Bloch. I am making a request of the chairman.

Have I that privilege ?

Mr. MuNDT. You may.

Mr. Rankin. I object.

Mr. Bloch. I don't want any implications of statements here to
redound against me or my professional integrity or my rights as an
American citizen, and I resent the implication. I am here in accord-
ance with an honored tradition of the law.

Mr. Stripling. For several montlis the Committee on Un-American
Activities has had under investigation the operations of alleged under-
ground apparatus of the Communist Party which existed in the Gov-
ernment here in Washington from 1934 through 1938 that we know of.

The questions which will be directed to you this morning have to
do with determining the facts regarding that apparatus. If you de-
cline to answer the questions on constitutional grounds, I wish you
would so state. If you do not have the information of your own
knowledge, we would like for you to state and not to give a blanket
answer. Is that understood?

Mrs. Bachrach. That is understood.

1470 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. Hkbert. Mr. Chairman. I ajjain call attention to the fact that
the plea of tlie j)rotection of the first amendment is not valid, the courts
have so held. The only validity of a ]dea is that it may de<irade or
incrinunate her and that is the only stand she can have without bein<^
in contempt of the committee.

Mrs. Baciihach. May I make a .statement on it?

Mr. Hkiikrt. There is no statement to be made. That is an instruc-
tion.

Mr. MuxnT. Proceed, Mr. Stripling.

Mr. Stkii'Lixg. When and where were you born?

Mrs. Baciihach. T was horn in Chicaj^o, 111.

Mr. SrKii'i.ixc;. What year?

Mrs. Bachrach. 18J)8.

Mr. STRiri.ixo. Where were your parents born?

Mrs. Bachrach. They were both born in Illinois.

Mr. STKirLix<}. Have vou ever resided in Washiuirton, I). C?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer the question, invokin«r a<zain
my rijrht under the first amendment \n which I still believe that valid-
it v resides, and also on the ground that it is within mv rijj:ht under
the fifth amendment and that my answer mi<^ht possibly incriminate
me.

Mr. Stripltn-^o. Do you know William Z. Foster?

Mr. MuNDT. The Chair insists that if you invoke your ii<j:hts under
the fifth ameiulment, wdiich is the only one valid under this committee,
that you spell oiit the reasons for invokin<r the fifth amendment.

Mrs. Bachrach. On the grounds that the answer mi<rht tend to
incriminate me.

Mr. Strh'Ling. Do you knotv William Z. Foster?

Mrs. Bachrach, I a<rain decline to answer on the jjround that this
is an invasion of my ri<j:hts under the first amendment, privacy of
association, and on the further <iround that under the fifth amendment
the answer mi^ht tend to incriminate me.

Mr, Striplixg, Do you know William Green?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. vS'iKiri-ixc;. Do you know Mayor O'Dwyer f

Mr. MuxuT. I am sorry, you will have to spell it out.

Mrs. B.\ciirach. On the jrrounds that this is a«rain williin my ri<:hts
undei- the fii-st amendmcMit to i-efuse to reveal my assiM'iations and
on the further ground under the fifth ameinhnent that an answer
mi<rht tend to incriminate me.

IVIr. Striplixg, Do you know Mayor O'Dwyer?

Mrs. Bachrach. I do not.

Mr. Stru'lixg. Do you know Senator Downey?

Mrs. Bachrach. I do not.

Mr. Strh'i.ixg. Do you know former Representative John M. Coffey
of the State of Washin<rton ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I do.

Mr. Strh'i.ixg. Do you know former Representative Hufrh De Lacy
of the State of Washington ?

^^rs. Bachi{ach. I apiin decline to answer, exercising my rijjhts
undei- the first amendment and also on the <rround that the answer
mi«rht tend to incrimimite me and that I therefore have a right to
refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1471

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Governor Dewey ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I do not.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Alger Hiss ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I again invoke my right under the first amend-
ment and decline to answer on the ground that an answer might tend
to incriminate me.

Mr. Rankin. Ask her if she knows former Congressman Savage of
Washington.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know former Congressman Savage of
Washington ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I do not.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Priscilla Hiss, the wife of Alger Hiss?

Mrs. Bachrach. I again decline to answer on the ground that the
question is an invasion of my rights under the first amendment and
also I exercise my right under the fifth amendment to refuse to give
an answer which might tend to incriminate me.

Mr. Stripling. I. want you to bear in mind in answering the ques-
tions which I am about to ask you the instructions of the committee
that if you don't have any knowledge, you state so, but not a blanket
answer.

Mrs. Bachrach. I understand.

Mr. Stripling. Have you ever been in the home of Priscilla Hiss
in Washington, D. C. ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the ground that the question
is an invasion of my right under the first amendment and on the
further ground that I choose to exercise my right under the fifth
amendment and refuse to give an answer which might tend to in-
criminate me.

Mr. Stripling. Did you ever copy any documents from the De-
partment of State?

Mrs. Bachrach. I did not.

Mr. Rankin. I want to call attention to the fact that the . first
amendment has nothing whatever to do

Mr. Mundt. She lias been so advised, but if she wants to reaffirm
it, she may.

Mr. Rankin. Tlie first amendment has nothing whatever to do
witli the riglit of a witness to decline to answer testimony during a
legitimate inquiry.

Mr. INIundt. She has been so advised and if she refuses to repeat
it, she has that privilege.

Mr. Stripling. I will repeat the question. Did you ever copy any
documents removed from tlie Department of State?

Mrs. Bachrach. I did not.

Mr. Stripling. Did you ever copy any documents removed from
the Bureau of Standards?

Mrs. Bachrach. I did not.
^ Mr. Stripling. Did you ever copy any documents removed from the
Xavy Department?

Mrs. Bachrach. I did not.

Mr. Stripling. Did you ever loan Mrs. Priscilla Hiss a typewriter?

Mrs. Bachrach. I did not.

Mr. Stripling. Did you ever see a typewriter in the home of Mrs.
Priscilla Hiss ?

80408—48 — pt. 2 7

1472 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the ground that this is an
invasion of my ri<:!:ht under first anicndnuMit and on the further
ground that an answer might tend to incriminate me, invoking my
right under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Sntu'LiNG. Do you know Donald Hiss?

Mrs. BAcnHAcir. I (leclino to ans\\(>r on the ground that the question
is an invasion of my rights under the iirst amendment aiul on the
further ground that it is my right so to do, to decline under the fifth
amendment because an answer might tend to incriminate me.

Mr. Sthii'iino. Do you know Lee I*iessman'?

Mrs. Baciiuacii. I decline to answer on the ground that this is
also an invasion of my right under the first amendment, on the ground
that it is my right to decline uiuler the fifth amendment because the
answer might tend to inci-iminate me.

Mr. Stkii'Lixc;. I shall ask the witness, Mr. Chairuuin, if she knows
a list of individuals. If it is agreeable witli the witness and with the
committee, if she replies, "Same answer" it will be jmdei'stood that she
is giving the same gi-ounds that she has "just stated in answer as to
whether or not she knows the individuals just mentioned.

Mr. ^NfuNDT. Is that agreeable?

Mr. Nixon. I have one question before you go into that list of
names.

Did Mrs. Alger Hiss ever deliver to you a typewriter?

Mrs. Bachrach. She did not.

Mr. MuNDT. I would like to ask the witness another question. Are
you now or have you ever ])een a member of the (\)mmunist Party?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the ground tliat this is a
direct invasion of my right under the first amendment on the ground
further that I have the right so to decline under the fifth amendment
because an answer might tend to incriminate me.

Mr. Muxnr. Go ahead. Mr. Stripling.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know John Abt ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I do.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Nathan Witt?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the ground previously stated.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Henry Collins?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Charles Kramer or Charles Krevitsky,
known under both names?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the grounds previously sta-
ted.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Nathan Gregory Silvermaster?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know William Ludwig I'llmann?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Strtpijng. Do you know George Silverman?

Mrs. Bachrach. I do not.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Irving Kaplan?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.

IMr. Stripling. Do you know Victor Perlo ?

COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 1473

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Elizabeth T. Bentley ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I do not.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know, or did you know Jacob N. Golos ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I do not.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Eleanor Nelson ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Stripling. Do you know Harold Ware?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. MuNDT. Do you know Louis Budenz ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Kankin. Mr. Chairman, one of the reasons given for refusing
to answer questions is that this is not a legal committee of Congress.
I want to call the attention of the committee to the fact that the Com-
munists raised that question and harped on it in the Dennis trial,
and especially charged that I was not a legitimate Member of Congress.

The Federal Court of Appeals answered it in no uncertain terms,
stating that the contention was silly and ridiculous; that this was a
legitimate committee of Congress and that I, John Rankin, from
Mississippi, was a legal Member of the Congress of the United States.

This committee is the only committee in Congress that has been
determined to be legal by the courts and I am the only Member of
Congress declared legally a Member of Congress.

Mr. MuNDT. Proceed, Mr. Stripling.

Mr. Stripling. I have no further questions.

Mr. MuNDT. Did you ever discuss with Mrs. Hiss in any way the
disposition of a typewriter ?

Mrs. Bachrach. I did not,

Mr. MuNDT. Why is it that you tell the committee that you know
John Abt and refuse to answer on the grounds of self-incrimination
the question of whether you know Nathan Gregory Silvermaster ?

Mrs. Bachrach. My understanding of the fifth amendment is that
it reserves to the person under examination the right to determine
for herself what questions might tend to be incriminating.

Mr. MuNDT. Only on the basis that those questions must legitimately
be such that an answer would be self -incriminating, not just a willy-
nilly decision to be made by the witness.

Mrs. Bachrach. My further understanding of my rights under the
fifth amendment is that the disclosure of reasons for willingness to
answer some questions and refusal to answer others is tantamount to
disclosing the ground which might be self-incriminating.

Mr. Stripling. Are you related to John Abt ?
_ Mr. Rankin. I want to point out that that has been harped on
time and time again and I want to call the committee's attention to
the fact that that provision of the fifth amendment merely applies
to a person answering for a capital offense or other infamous crime.
So unless it would incriminate her or stamp her as guilty of an in-
famous crime, she has no right to refuse to answer these questions
that are propounded by the committee — by members of the committee
or by the investigator.

1474 COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE

Mr. MuNDT. Tlie chairman would like to state that the crime in-
volved here is very definitely a capital crime. It is either treason
in wartime or treason in peacetime.

Mr. Rankin. What they are trying to shield here is treason because
these documents were stolen during the war. That was brought out
the other day. They were stolen after the fall of Pearl IIarl)oi-, some
of them, and transmitted to foreign countries; so the i)oint 1 want
to bring out here is that this was treason and we have the documents to
show that this crime was committed.

Mr. MuNm-. Mr. Stripling, have you further questions?

Mr. Stripling. Yes.

Mr. Bloch. May I ask a question ?

Mv. Stiupijn-(;. I want to clear this up.

Are you related to Jolm Abt?

Mrs. Baciiracei. I am,

Mr. Striplino. Would you give the committee 3'our i-elationship?

Mrs. Bachracii. I am his sister.

Mr. Stripling. That is all.

Mr. McDowell. Do you know Vera M. Dean ?

Mrs. Bachr^^ch. No.

Mr. Stripling. I have one other question.

Mr. Mundt. Proceed.

Mr. Stripling. Have you ever been to the Soviet Union?

Mrs. Baciirach. I have not.

Mr. Mundt. Do you have any questions, Mr. Nixon?

Mr. Nlxon. No questions.

A fr. Mundt. Mr. McDowell?

Mr. McDowell. No questions.

Mr. Mundt. Mr. Rankin?

Mr. Rankin. No questions.

Mr. Mundt. Mr. Hebert?

Afr. Hebert. No questions.

Mr. Bloch. Mr. Chairman

Mr. Mundt. Mi-s. Bacluacli, voii are dismissed for the time beinur
and will be continued under subpena, and the committee will go into
executive session at this time.

Mr. Blocii. Before you conclude, may I ask a question?

Mr. Mundt. Not at the moment. We will go into executive session
at this time.

Mrs. Bachrach. Mr. Chairman, I would like permission to read a
statement at this time.

Mr. MuNixr. Not at the moment. You are still under subpena. We
will go into executive session.

Mr. Block. Are we excused for the day?

Mr. Mundt. For the day; yes.

AHs. Baciirach. Does this mean I can return to New York?

Mr. Mundt. You may.

Mr. Rankin. Or Russia.

Mr. Bloch. Until further subpena?

Mr. MuNirr. Until further summons.

Mr. Bloch. Until further summons.

Mr. Mundt. The committee will adjourn.

(Whereupon, at 11:25 a. m., the committee was recessed to recon-
vene in executive session.)

INDEX

Page

Abt, John 1381, 1472, 1474

Acheson, Dean 1430

Agriculture Department 1430

Amerasia 1416, 1417

American Cafe 1383

American Legation, Vienna 138S

Appell, Donald T 1381-1385

Bachrach, Marion 1467-1474

Bentlev, Elizabeth T 1381, 1426, 1432, 1446, 1473

Eerie, Adolf A., Jr 1406, 1408-1410, 1414-1416, 1419, 1422, 1433

Berle, Mrs. Adolf A., Jr 1406, 1407, 1414

Bloch, Emanuel H 1468

Book League of America 1400

Brandt, William C 1464

British Government 1419, 1421

Budenz, Louis 1473

Bullitt, William C 1392, 1410

Bureau of Standards 1471

Burtan 1412

Bykov, alias Peters 1404

Cairns 1430

Canadian Royal Commission 1414, 1427

Canadian Royal Mounted Police 1413

Carl (alias lor Whittaker Chambers) 1432

Chambers, Esther (Mrs. Whittaker Chambers) 1452,1457,1462

Chambers, Whittaker (see also Carl; George Crosley) 1381-1383,

13S8, 1400-1402, 1404-1410, 1413-1416, 1418-1426, 1428, 1430, 1432-

1436, 1442, 1448, 1452-1465.

Chicago Daily News 1400

Clark, Tom C . 1417, 1464

Cleveland, Robert 1388, 1456

Coffee, John M 1470

Collins, Henry 1381, 1472

Committee of Imperial Defense 1419

Crosley. George {see also Whittaker Chambers 1414, 1432, 1462

Dean, Vera M 1474

De Lacy, Hugh 1470

Dewey, Thomas E 1471

Dies committee (see also Special Committee on Un-American Activi-
ties) 1404, 1415, 1418

Downey 1470

Dozenberg, Nick ^^ 1412

Eisler, Gerhtirt 1432, 1444

Eastman Kodak Co ^___ 1385, 1386

Federal Bureau of Investigation 1397

1410, 1411, 1433, 1443, 1445, 1446, 1455, 1459, 1460

Federal Farm Board 1430

Foreign Economic Administration 1430, 1439, 1441

Forer, Joseph 1432, 1449

Foster, William Z 1470

Gayn, Marc 1417

Golos, Jacob N 1473

Gousenko 1413

Grady, Henry 1430

Green, William 1470

n INDEX

Greenborg, Forer & Rein 1432, 1449

Greeiibcrj,', llcrnian 1432, 1438, 1444, 1445, 1449

(JrwntioM. Robert T 1389

Hawkiii.s. Ilany C 1430,1431,1435

Hay-Adams Hotel 1407, 1408

Hearst Newspapers 1400

Henderson, Loy 1410, 1412, 1416

Hiss, Alger 13S1, 13S9, 1408,

1413, 1410. 1424. 1432, 1433, 1435, 1441, 1455, 1456, 1462-1464. 1471

Hiss, Mrs. Alger (Priscilla Hiss) 1441,1472,1473

Hiss, Donald 1381, 1408, 1442, 1462. 1472

Hiss, Priscilla {see also Mrs. Alger Hiss) 1381,1471

Hitler, Adolf 1411

Hull 1302

Italian Government 1430, 1439

Jaflfee, Phillip 1417

Japanese Ambassador 1417

Justice Depjirtraent 1416-1418, 1420, 1422, 1424, 1427, 1459, 1460, 1462

Kansas City Star 1400

Kaplan, Irving 1381, 1472

King 1410

King, Senator 1400

Kramer, Charles (alias for Charles Krevitsky) 1472

Kravchenko, Victor 1400

Krevitsky, Charles (alias Charles Kramer) 1472

Krivitsky, Walter... 1400, 1402-1406, 1409-1412, 1415, 1416, 1418, 1419, 1426, 1427

Ladd, Senator 14(X)

Larson, Emanuel 1417

Levine. Isaac Don 1.399-1427

Levine, Nathan L 1427,1451-1465

Lewis, Keith B 1385-1387

Lincoln. Eunice A 1389

Linen, James A 1460

London School of Economics 1430

Lothian 1419

Mclntyre. Marvin 1405, 1406

Mitchell, Kate L 1417

Mortimer, George Horace 1410

NKVD 1409

Navv Department 1471

Neall. Adelaide 1410

Nellis, Joseph 1444

Nelson. p:ieanor 1473

Nelson, Sieve 1468, 1469

New York Globe 1400

New York Tribune 1400

Newcomb. Anna Belle 1389

Nixon. Richard M 1385

OGPU • 1409

O'Dwycr. William , 1470

Owens. Courtney E 1449-1450

Oxford College 1430

Pasvoisky, Leo 1430

Perlo. Victor 1381. 1472

Peters (alias for Bykov) 1404

Peurifov, John 1389, 1391-1397

Plain Talk 1400. 1417

Pressman. I^ee 1.381, 1472

Provost Marshal's Office . 1.381

Rein. David 1432. 1449

Roo.sevelt, Franklin Delano 1405,1409,1410

Roth, Andrew 1417

Saturday Evening Post 1403,1406,1410,1412

Savage. Charles Raymon 1471

Sayre, Francis H 1.387,1.389.1430.1441

Service, John Stewart 1417,1418

Silverman. George 1381, 1472

Silvermaster, Nathan Gregory 1472, 1473

^ INDEX III

Special Committee on Un-American Activities (see also Dies committee) __ 1404,

1415, 1418

Stalin. Josef 1404, 1411, 1426, 1427

Stalin-Hitler pact 1405, 1406, 1411, 1416

State Department 1379, 1386,

1388-1390, 1393-1397, 1401, 1406-1408, 1412, 1414, 1416, 1417, 1420-
1422, 1424, 1425, 1430-1435, 1439-1441, 1446-1448, 1463, 1464, 1471

Stephens, Alexander 1381

Stilwell, Joseph W 1417

Stimson, Henry L 1406

Stripling, Robert E 1380-1381

Time Magazine 1405, 1457, 1458, 1460, 1461, 1464

Treasury Department 1381

UUmann, William Ludwig _ 1472

United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration 1430, 1439, 1440

United States Embassy, Moscow 1405

University of Chicago 1430

Valtin, Jan 1400

Veterans' Administration 1383, 1384

Voice of America 1423

Wadleigh, Henry Julian 1429-1450, 1464

Ware, Harold 1381. 1473

Welles, Sumner 1386-1392

Wheeler, William 1381-1385, 1387, 1393

White, Harry Dexter 1381

Winchell, Walter 1410, 1416

Witt, Nathan 1381. 1472

Woodley House 1406

Yardley Act 1396

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